To come out of retirement for Coronavirus

[AlexaAmbidextra]

Are you a retired nurse or doctor? I’m a retired nurse and there’s no way on God’s earth I’m coming out of retirement for this. Not because of the personal risk but the fact that I’m just done with working. Should I be more unselfish?

Over-sixties haven’t been told to stay at home!

I can’t vote for some reason by YANBU. It’s a ridiculous plan!

I left nursing a few years ago and wouldn't go back. Since 2010, the NHS has been systematically run down on purpose. It was always obvious that it would fail to cope in a crisis. Well, now there is potentially a crisis and the government, and all those who voted for them, need to see the practical consequences of their policies. They were warned a long time ago. They can own it.

Reginabambina
I can assure you I am definitely not selfish but you appear to have no understanding of modern day nursing/healthcare. There is literally nothing I could safely do in a ward environment that can't be done by an unqualified nurse or HCA who is current and up to date with practice. I refuse to put patients, colleagues and myself at risk.
And as for manning advice lines etc? With the minimal training you would get and knowing the abuse current 111 handlers put up with? No thank you.
I don't have to justify my early retirement to anyone and I'm filling it with unpaid volunteering, so really not selfish.

It’s all very well PPs suggesting that retired medics should just be used to backfill jobs away from the frontline critical care of viral pneumonia patients.
But it’s the frontline ITU doctors who are most likely to be off sick with the virus themselves, due to their greater exposure.
You can’t just replace them with any general doctor- you’d have to ask retired ITU specialists to step in.
I am one of only 5 retired doctors with ITU or critical care experience living in my city hospital’s catchment area. If we reach worst case pandemic scenario, then yes of course I would volunteer for “frontline” service. I just hope I still have the stamina to manage a 24 hour shift in a Hazmat suit!
And I think any or all retired medics would do the same in such extreme circumstances, if it ever came to it - I really don’t believe any of us would be selfish enough to refuse. We all took the Hippocratic oath, and have a moral obligation to serve humanity.

@Fannia Nurses and medics have been utterly shafted by the NHS for 10 years now. Why do you think so many have taken early retirement? For us to go back is a massive ask after being treated with such contempt. Why "should" we go back in an emergency? To put our own health on the line to plug the massive gaps that the government and lots of the voting public knew existed and didn't care about? But they want us back now they may be on the sharp and of their decisions? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Hold on, surely these people are already accounted for in the detailed govt plan for how to cope when They stop issuing visas for "unskilled" workers in care homes coming here.

Also what @choirmumoftwo said. I have focused on the political reasons for saying no. But there are a litany of reasons why it's an unsafe suggestion for patients, other HCPs and the returning HCPs themselves.

If I was one of very few like @Babdoc then my stance would be the same as hers. But nursing moves and changes a lot and my specialism has nothing to do with respiratory issues so frankly, Cathy from the co-op would be as much use as me.

I was an SODP mainly in anaesthetics until I left last year. I'm still registered and no where near retirement but, there is no way I will come back. My skills would be easily transferable to ITU and theatres would be used as ITU's in the event of a mass outbreak. But...

I'm burnt out, Ive already had a laminectomy due to my knackered back from lugging operating tables around and lifting. I'm hypertensive and have two asthmatic children. My mum is battling stage 4 CA lung, my inlaws both have heart disease and diabetes.

I can't take the risk of bringing the virus home if that makes me selfish then so be it.

Would those same people saying that they wouldn't help still say that they wouldn't help if Jeremy Corbyn was pm and asking them?

Yep! The Queen could ask and the answer would still be no.

Well, now there is potentially a crisis and the government, and all those who voted for them, need to see the practical consequences of their policies. They were warned a long time ago. They can own it.

Why "should" we go back in an emergency? To put our own health on the line to plug the massive gaps that the government and lots of the voting public knew existed and didn't care about? But they want us back now they may be on the sharp and of their decisions
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I find this attitude pretty sickening to read - seems like wanting to punish vulnerable people further (and finding it funny?) for the actions of the government in running down the NHS.

I think if the shit really really hits, it would be morally incumbent on any and all of us that are fit and able to (no caring responsibilities for dependents etc) to help each other in whatever way we can. If a retired nurse is no more use than a HCA - then they could go be a HCA, they’re still useful and needed staff - and not just refuse to because the Tories suck. This shouldn’t be a political issue, this should be one of humanity and individual social responsibility.

Over-sixties haven’t been told to stay at home!

We have.

www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/government-coronavirus-battle-plan-urges-over-60s-to-avoid-crowds/

Over sixties stay at home? A lot of us have been told we have to work until 67 before we can retire

I find this attitude pretty sickening to read - seems like wanting to punish vulnerable people further (and finding it funny?) for the actions of the government in running down the NHS

Good for you! It's not about wanting to punish vulnerable people. Its about it being completely foreseeable that the NHS's capacity to cope in a crisis has been decimated. And I won't risk my own health and by extension, that of my family, to help bail out the consequences of those decisions. If there were no health risks to us going back, that would be different. But to treat staff like shit for years, ignore all the warnings, then expect those who have been treated like shit to go and full the gaps they were warned about, is the government taking the piss. And it's that piss taking that the Hahahahaha was aimed at. NOT the ill people.

If you are so keen to help out, then there are often HCP jobs going. Why not go for one of them? I am glad you think, though, that nursing and HCP skills are so generic and easy that anyone could do them. Nursing and HCPs are increasingly specialised in the same way as medics. You wouldn't ask a surgeon to perform IVF. And the more specialised you get, the more that people tend to become de-skilled in the nuts and bolts stuff. Hence you would probably know as much about frontline HCP work as me now. My skills are elsewhere. That is dangerous for patients, other HCPs and the HCP themselves. Qualified nurses are expected to be in charge of the ward. There are very few of them on a shift and many more HCPs. I wouldn't want to take charge of a ward when I had never nursed in that area, didn't know the demands and risks of the role and haven't done a medication round in years. But you can bet your life that would be expected because qualified nurses would expect paying at that level, so the NHS would want their money's worth. That is dangerous.

It's actually morally disgusting to expect people to put their own and family's health on the line, to go back and work in a possibly totally unfamiliar area, without the necessary skills, to fill gaps which the government were warned about years ago.

If they hadn't ignored the warnings, I would be far more likely to go back. But they did. If that makes me mean, so be it. But there are plenty with the same view. It's called "actions have consequences".

This shouldn’t be a political issue, this should be one of humanity and individual social responsibility

I agree, sadly it was made into one. Not by the staff. By the politicians whose policies directly effect the NHS and the people who voted for them. An organisation which is largely determined by politics is bound to be affected by politics. Or do you think that policies and votes have no consequences? The people who voted for this shitshow are the ones who are morally reprehensible.

People aged over 60 are being advised to avoid crowded areas and public transport to prevent infection.

That's not the same as being told to stay 'at home'.

I think you’ll find it is. How do you avoid public transport if you commute to work or don’t drive? How do you do your shopping and avoid crowded places at the same time? Most people aged 60-66 are still working.

I don't really understand the people saying that their lack of up to date training would make it too risky for them to come back.

Surely there are some basic transferable skills in healthcare that are always needed and these would be more valuable than getting either someone with no healthcare skills or even worse - no one at all, to do them.

They reckon the mortality rate of Corona virus is currently 3.5%. There's also talk of 80% of the population getting it. So if it stays at 3.5%, the UK could face 1.8 million deaths/complications from Corona virus. The average death toll of flu each year is 17,000 so that is less than 1% of the amount of deaths/complications they are predicting from Corona virus.

However, when only 39 people have confirmed Corona virus right now and none have died, it does take a lot of imagination to assume 52 million people will catch it. Their numbers are very silly. There's one case in Scotland right now so it's a real stretch to say that 80% of the population will get it.

We're coming out of the cold and flu season too so I suspect it will be easier for people to tell they have it and reduce the spread.

Still, even if 10% of the population get Corona virus, that will be 6.6 million people and with a mortality rate of 3.5%, that could still be 231,000 deaths/complications for Corona virus which would be hard for the NHS to deal with.

Asking for people that have worked 40-50 years for the NHS to go back to work is ridiculous though. Also that most of these people will be late 50's and early 60's so a bit more at risk than others.

Obviously self care will be the most important thing. They need to work out who's most at risk and who isn't so people can be advised properly to limit the hospitals being overwhelmed.

I know nothing about the virus or anything but I very much doubt that even 10% of the population will catch it and if they were to, it would be over a long period of time, not just a couple of months. In almost 1 month since it coming to the UK, it's only gotten to 39 people. That's quite a slow rate of infection. If people follow all the guidelines, it shouldn't spread like wild fire and infect a large percentage of the population all at once

The mortality rate is 0.5% in under 50s, it rises to 15% in over 80s. The 3.5% is an average over all age groups.

Well, now there is potentially a crisis and the government, and all those who voted for them, need to see the practical consequences of their policies. They were warned a long time ago. They can own it.

Nice.

They reckon the mortality rate of Corona virus is currently 3.5%.

I heard a commentator this morning saying the margin for error on that is 4. So the 'true' rate (on a whole population basis, not broken down by risk group) could be as low as under 1% (in line with the big seasonal flu outbreaks in the (pre-vaccination) of the 1970s. Or it could be very worryingly high.

@FourTeaFallOut I know it isn't nice. Harsh truths often aren't. It doesn't make them less true. I genuinely wish it did.

I'm sure "I told you so" will make a very touching memorial to those who will die and those who will grieve their loss.

Whatever happens the government will never own the responsibility - they will still manage to blame anybody except themselves. Bunch of infantile, bullying, thoughtless, personally ambitious, selfish and unintelligent politicians that they are .