Antisemitism in schools

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c623d7z1rxg5o

So sad that the anti semitism brought about by an anti Israel non mentality is now impacting schools and the government is having to act to protect pupils.

A lot of those purport to wanting to support Gaza want a single Islamic Palestinian state on the whole territory of Israel and it is disingenuous in the extreme to suggest people don't want that. The agitators that want 'education' don't want to hear about the minutiae of UN resolutions they want a platform to opine against the Zionist project of the creation of Israel itself. Even if you started to talk about boundaries on a map I am going to suggest there will be class members that would say the whole of Israel is Pleatinian and acceptance of UN borders is tantamount to surrender of a cause they believe in.

Even a discussion about political boundaries would seem lead to problems.

You know this thread is about antisemitism right?
There has to be some limit to these side debates?

Why has anti semitism as one form of racism reached a level where specific safeguarding measures are being put in place. My thoughts are the DoE are aware of multiple instances of Jewish pupils lives becoming intolerable.

Ah right. So what you are saying is that it makes no difference what one teaches, because if that person has a different idea, then no matter what, their mind will not be changed.

To take that to the absurd level, that would mean that kids from a "flat earth" household should not be taught the world is a sphere in geography.

Or back in real world, not middle east, places such as Taiwan could be a problem. Teaching about Taiwan, and some kid pops their hand up and exclaims " My dad says Taiwan is a part of the People Republic of China, that there is only one China, and I demand you change that world map to the official CPC approved one that shows the rogue Provence of Chinese Taipei is the same colour as the PRC"

Is that when you hang up your mortar board up and walk out ? Or do you teach what the general consensus is ?

One problem in having an open discussion about Gaza with opinionated teenagers is that there may be the temptation to defend the indefensible about October 7th. What happens if the class starts declaring the terrorist atrocity of meaningful resistance? Is this what we should be doing in our classrooms?

The point is this is not about education or debate of differing views this is about protest and in reality there will be only one loser, Jewish pupils who have had to be protected by specific safeguarding measures. I am not against debate about some controversial matters in school but as adults we need to be aware of general safety aspects of the results of dicussion. The troubles in NI will produce different types of discussion when held in London or Belfast. I am not Irish but I expect the average Irish teacher would think long and hard about how the history of the region is taught knowing full well the teaching is being done in a region of sectarian divide. It often helps that events are reasonably historical with immediate passion removed when teaching in a classroom as well.

The thread is about a report that is not published yet (I think).

Why is there a limit ? Is it not useful to explore adjacent concepts ?

For example, there is a fairly common statement on these types of threads saying, "Islam is not compatible with western values". And there is an overlap on the Venn diagram of people who are massively pro Israel and also massively Islamophobic. And I would argue that adjacent discussion can uncover motives and deep held opinions.

In this case, "activist teachers" have been mentioned, and to me it's good for the general discussion to figure out what people mean by that. A classic Reform/Restore voter for example, might say that to that to teach non-white kids can be British are "activists". And if such opinions are held, then it helps define what they consider activist teachers are in respect to the Middle East.

Not aimed at your good self of course, I mean the forum as a whole.

Ha I've just seen that I never bothered to finish my post. The people who have a problem with the definition include one of the main drafters Stern. He has an issue with the way the IHRA definition is being used as a political tool and being weaponsied which is precisely what is happening here.

You don't even have any shits to give about the people who drafted it because you don't value their opinion but you think the definition that they drafted should be used in schools? What?!!

I think child safeguarding comes before anything else. If an emotive and contentious topic is going to make children feel unsafe at school and possibly cause bullying or factionism then I think the topic should be out of bounds until the young people are mature enough to treat each other respectfully.
School is hard enough for minority groups. Some issues highlight their minority status in unhelpful ways. As a teacher my first responsibility is to make sure everyone feels safe and valued. Sometimes that means you have to create a safe haven from the outside world so that young people can to know each other without baggage or labels . Introducing this topic would sow division and reap tears and anger.

To be clear, the necklace was in the shape of Israel with the word Palestine on it. Some of the river to the sea methodology. And the organisation is explained here - yes, a biased resource but deeply problematic in experience. Read the bit about the early resources which is for primary age, not even angry teenagers.

https://www.uklfi.com/concerns-grow-over-scottish-teachers-group-promoting-anti-israel-propaganda-in-classrooms

~7% of Palestinians are Christian, not Muslim. They and their churches are frequently attacked in both the West Bank and in Israel.

Let's see what the report says.

What is your schools policy on the subject ? If that is not outing of course.

Do you agree with my point re a discussion thread like this should also include exploring deeper attitudes and opinions held ?

I am not good at remembering usernames, and nor do I have any interest in doing so. But I have seen shockingly Islamophobic comments in Reform threads, and on these CIME boards. And on a subject such as this, it helps to know if such opinions are held. I believe in playing the ball and not the player in these discussions, but knowing, for example, if someone has said, " Islam is not compatible with western values", then it might taint what they say here.

With that in mind, for a casual reader of these threads, such exploration can be useful ?

I have seen it posted here that "it is too complex a subject for kids". And I have seen people post that who are incredibly binary on the subject, that is, "all Muslims are bad, all Palestinians are terrorists". And if those same people are describing teachers as "activists", it is a valid point to the discussion.

Sorry to ramble, just trying to explain where I am coming from.

I actually don’t think anyone here needs to justify their views to think that teachers shouldn’t be telling kids theirs. I don’t teach children (except mine I suppose) and therefore don’t have to balance opposing viewpoints, binary attitudes and the needs of a minority population and a tinier minority population.

I think that the harm it causes by discussing a topic like this in schools with maybe 1 Jewish child and a couple hundred Muslim children, far outweighs any sort of benefit. I think it’s genuinely damaging for my kids to be surrounded by teachers wearing Pro Palestine pins and I would say any sort of political viewpoint belongs outside the classroom.

Why would my daughter trust her teacher after being told she supports the destruction of her country? How on earth can she feel supported to share any sort of view when there’s an already predetermined right and wrong?

“I am not good at remembering usernames, and nor do I have any interest in doing so. But I have seen shockingly Islamophobic comments in Reform threads, and on these CIME boards. And on a subject such as this, it helps to know if such opinions are held. I believe in playing the ball and not the player in these discussions, but knowing, for example, if someone has said, "Islam is not compatible with western values", then it might taint what they say here.”

Are you suggesting that I have posted Islamaphobic comments elsewhere? I have not made any Islamaphobic comments. That is a foul thing to hint at.
Quite disgusting actually.

I completely agree.
And the important point here is we are talking about children. People under 18 who are in our care . We are responsible for their physical and emotional well being.
Not all debates are appropriate for the classroom and this is an example.

I am not suggesting you have. Did I not make that clear in a post above ? And was my post above not clear that I was talking in general ?

Anyway, do you agree or disagree with my premise ?

I think your post is a disgraceful slur.You are trying to suggest that people on here concerned about antisemitism in schools are actually motivated by Islamaphobia.
That’s a disgusting position to take and says more about you than anything else.

Quote "I think that the harm it causes by discussing a topic like this in schools with maybe 1 Jewish child and a couple hundred Muslim children,"

Are you saying that it is only Muslim children who are antisemitic ? That it is only Muslims who are a danger ?

Just for info, my DD is also in a minority of 1 in her school. Being mixed race. And the nationality that is me, that makes up her mix, is officially the "baddie" in her history lessons.

Are you telling us that your daughter feels unsafe in school and is victimised because she is mixed race?
If so then you must act immediately.

Have you seen Reform threads ? Are you saying nobody is motivated by Islamophobia ?

I already said, it was not directed at you.

You implied it about people on this thread. You are being disingenuous.

Huh? I’m suggesting that in a scenario of balancing the triggering discussions for two different groups of minorities, a teacher with a clearly stated bias cannot possibly be the best one to manage the scenario.

For what it’s worth, the 5 separate incidents that were worth reporting to the school were about 50/50 by Muslim children. My kids hear it from kids of all backgrounds so I’m pretty egalitarian. I don’t target Muslims, I target antisemites.

I have never been on a Reform thread. You are in a thread about antisemitism. If you want to
talk about Islamaphobia set up a new thread.
It’s pretty disgusting to suggest that people are only concerned about antisemitism because they’re Islamaphobic.

And here we are. The people who are saying it is too emotive a subject for kids, are getting emotive.

And yes, I have seen at least one poster here who has posted things of an Islamophobic nature on other threads.

Are you saying such opinions do not matter in discussions such as these ?

Well I haven’t made Islamaphobic comments. And your slurs are evidence of why this isn’t a suitable topic for a classroom .

Fair enough. It's 50/50. You have clarified.

I hope this report when it comes out has good actions, and the incidents get to zero, as they should be.