Antisemitism in schools

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c623d7z1rxg5o

So sad that the anti semitism brought about by an anti Israel non mentality is now impacting schools and the government is having to act to protect pupils.

Yes, this is why discussions on very controversial issues aren't appropriate for the classroom. Children can of course talk about these issues with their families and friends but I don't trust schools to get the balance right.

The secondary school near me is about 50% Muslim. I'm pretty sure there aren't any Jewish children at the school, even though it's a 'multicultural' neighbourhood. I should think any Jewish children would be long gone.

So where does all of this end then? You can't discuss 9/11 or 7/7 because it may cause bad feelings towards Muslims.

Can't discuss Ukraine/Russia may cause bad feelings towards Russian students.

Can't discuss covid may cause bad feeling towards Chinese students.

Can't discuss Irish occupation/Northern Ireland/IRA may provoke bad feeling towards Irish people.

Can't discuss WW2 may provoke bad feeling towards Germans.

This is the logical conclusion of what people here are asking for.

Actually I have no issue discussing anything in the past. I have a major issue discussing something happening right now that specifically created targets for a teeny tiny minority population. We can’t be impartial about today, it’s hard enough to be impartial about 100 years ago.

I also have a major problem with my children’s specific teachers who have created a curriculum that specifically avoids neutrality and teaches ‘Israel bad, Palestine good’ with no mention of Hamas being the elected representatives of Palestine and the reign of suicidal maniacs crossing the borders. I have a major problem with expecting 9/10/11/12 year olds to understand nuanced opinions from a teacher showing them a map of Israel and calling it ‘Palestine’s true home’ and I have a beyond major problem with the violence it’s encouraging against Jewish children.

If teachers were to discuss 9/11 in the classroom I wouldn’t be worried that they were actually on the side of Osama bin Laden.

Given that an English political party, with MPs in Parliament, now, in agreement with Hamas, has the eradication of the country of Israel as policy and the head of the largest teaching union in the country says that teachers can’t be trusted to not breach the IHRA definition of antisemitism, then I am not convinced that an unbiased and impartial discussion is what a teacher who wants to discuss this with their classes would be planning.

Convince me otherwise.

I was responding to your post where you said that schools should not discuss UA with pupils,.you wrote “I mean, this is a great demonstration of why activist teachers shouldn’t be ‘discussing’ this with their pupils.”

Are you now saying it’s ok to discuss UA but not Palestine? Make your mind up!

If all the marchers are doing is supporting the Palestinian people there should be no need for antisemitic slogans or placards.

But we see and hear that some of the marchers do carry offensive placards - such as those using Nazi inversion, references to the Holocaust etc. And chants like Globalise the Intifada are calling for violence against Israelis/Jewish people. These chants do nothing to support the Palestinian people. Sp what you are saying is nonsense.

English teacher here and I have always been taught in training not to talk about politics and not to have any badges or political posts on my social media.

When teaching context of Blood Brothers for example, the students would ask me what I personally thought about Margaret Thatcher and I would always steer it back to Willy Russell and the community of Liverpool at that time. Same for The Merchant of Venice and also for teaching War Poetry. Simon Armitage's poem Out of the Blue which is about 9/11. It IS tricky because students want to talk and debate. Its important for the students to be taught to be respectful and courteous to those who have a different pov. One British Pakistani student expressed her view during a poetry lesson that you have to be white to be English...the uproar that caused...

No, I didn’t say that.

I was responding to the bit of the post that said “supporting a country that is being blown to pieces is a brand new concept designed specifically by antisemites and it must be stopped because heaven forbid children learn about current affairs and come to the conclusion that blowing up brown Palestinian children is just as wrong as blowing up white Ukrainian children. That's too scary a thought for some to handle apparently.”

Because the facile representation of Palestine/Israel here should be nowhere near a classroom.

What the schools CAN do is get on and teach the children like they used to do before all this propaganda became fashionable.

When has propaganda ever not been fashionable? Do you not remember ‘Protect and Survive’ drills at school? How even handed was the teaching of WWII or Irish Independence? Or even the Crusades? Remember when Gerry Adams’s voice could not be broadcast and had to be dubbed over?

Our school hymn was a paean to the Queen and the British Empire (what remained of it in the 1980s).

Propaganda, censorship, selective presentation of the facts, and systematic bias are not new, they are inevitable. There was no golden age of objective teaching in schools.

You sound like a very professional teacher and taking the absolute correct attitude to debating political and social issues including the very important word.....respect.

With Gaza I contend those that want these discussions don't want respectful debate but an allowance of one sided protest that ultimately leads to a lack mentality where anti semtism can rear it's ugly head. I don't think this guidance has appeared out the blue, it must have been the result of reported instances of anti semitism within schools including the horrendous example from a plot with her autistic daughter.

Debate is not a hord of kids waving Palestinian flags shouting free Palestine and I respectfully suggest this is not allowed in the class room.

Yup. I am Scottish, and I was taught the 1745 was all about Bonnie Prince Charlie wanting to "free" Scotland from the English and all that. But it was not. It was basically Protestants V Catholics.

Surely the issue would be that Muslim children could be targeted for anti Muslim abuse whatever way it is discussed? This classroom censoring is supposed to be to protect Jewish children, we want Muslim children to be protected too don't we and we know that 9/11 sparked a huge rise in Islamaphobia so why would we risk introducing that into schools?

You know full well that the IHRA definition of antisemitism is controversial, even the main drafter of the definition has reiterat

I know that the people who have an issue with the IHRA definition of antisemitism are the same sort of people who voted for the Zionism is Racism motion.

How much of a shit do you think I give for their concerns? My opinion of them is largely unprintable.

Quote " One British Pakistani student expressed her view during a poetry lesson that you have to be white to be English...the uproar that caused..."

And you as a teacher are the person to teach them, and the class, that that is not the case. So a valuable lesson for all.

Indeed, it would be an ideal thing to dig into with the class I would have thought. Where did that idea come from for example? Was it at home from the parents, the playground from other kids, TikTok, from reading about what the far right say ? Loads of options.

And if you were to explain that no, it is not necessary to be white to be British ( British usually being a better term then English I expect), you might end up getting complaints from Reform voting parents, for brainwashing their kids.

I would say this is why policy matters. And hopefully what this report will do. Because it is about tackling such misconceptions and correcting them.

And if teachers disagree with the policy, then discuss why the policy matters, and if they still do not accept it, then remove the teacher.

I was teaching at the time of 9/11 and we didn’t “teach” 9/11 ( how can you do that in the immediate aftermath)
We allowed children to discuss the shock and horror but we were very careful not to let the discussion become a “Muslims are terrorists” debate. There was a real and genuine effort to ensure that Muslim children did not feel marginalised or judged on the basis of religion.
I don’t see the NEU making that effort today.

Teachers know that you’d have to be mad or malign to want to stir this hornets nest in a class full of teenagers.

Echoing this really, mad or maybe having a malign intent of stirring trouble up by having a 'debate' which is only going one way.

Quote " ..... with no mention of Hamas being the elected representatives of Palestine ....".

Probably because they are not. They were elected in Gaza. Not Palestine.

Would you have a problem with a teacher showing a map of the area, and explaining what all the different parts are ? This is Israel, this is Gaza, this is the West Bank, then trying to explain what is going on.

When you say something such as "....from a teacher showing them a map of Israel and calling it ‘Palestine’s true home’ ", can you not see that is open to interpretation ? Because from what I understand, there are Israeli factions who consider the whole area to belong to Israel. If you were aligned with that faction, that would mean you are objecting to teachers actually telling the truth. I am not saying you are of course, but I hope you see what I am saying here.

Also I think there are lines about debate. I have seen people locally want to take children out of lessons on the holocaust as in their 'opinion' the holocaust was exaggerated to improve th cause of Zionists. These are the same people who want suddenly to discuss the 'genocide' in Gaza. Are these the people we want driving education?

“Would you have a problem with a teacher showing a map of the area, and explaining what all the different parts are ? This is Israel, this is Gaza, this is the West Bank, then trying to explain what is going on.”
If you’ve been on this board for more than 5 minutes you should know how very difficult it is to “explain what is going on” in a balanced way to a group of adults.
Try doing that to a class of teenagers with possible connections to one side or the other .

So you are ok with a kid saying " you have to be white to be English (British)", and see no need to correct them?

So these kids leave school and think it is ok to say that ?

I am pretty sure there is no disagreements on these boards that there are separate territories under different governments. I expect there are people who say it is all Israel, or all Palestine, but I can't say I have seen anyone state that here.

I was referring to the discussion of Gaza.
If a teenager said “ You have to be white to be English” I would explain that there have been black people living in this country for as far back as there are records . But I would concede that many people see a distinction between being English and being British.
In my view British is a more inclusive term and English is a more narrow category.

I was referring to what the poster posted, not about Gaza. I was replying to this, quote" " One British Pakistani student expressed her view during a poetry lesson that you have to be white to be English...the uproar that caused...""

And your reply to that would be "there have been black people living in this country for as far back as there are records ".

Cool. Except of course British Pakistani is not black.