Antisemitism in schools

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c623d7z1rxg5o

So sad that the anti semitism brought about by an anti Israel non mentality is now impacting schools and the government is having to act to protect pupils.

Yes, there's no need at all for these discussions to take place in schools, whether that's Ukraine or Palestine. The children are free to talk about world events in their playtime or with their families.

I can imagine the kind of 'discussion' that would take place in the state secondary school near me, which is around 50% Muslim.

Any Jewish children would feel very intimidated. Although I imagine there are no Jewish children there. They've long gone. But anyone who didn't tow the line of their activist teachers would also feel intimidated and silenced.

Absolutely 👏🏼 well said

Keep politics out of school. All politics. It's way too toxic and any child who doesn't go along with the teacher's angle or with the groupthink will be alienated and silenced.

I feel sorry for kids now, having to put up with all this. Fine for the vocal minority who want to spout their views. But for those who are independent thinkers, they'll learn they have to keep their heads down and remain silent. Really bad.

I feel very sad that Jewish children here in the UK are targeted for a conflict thousands of miles away. They have nothing to do with the relationship between Gaza and Israel.

Unfortunately, many struggle to understand that.

I agree.

I mean, this is a great demonstration of why activist teachers shouldn’t be ‘discussing’ this with their pupils.

Yes, this discussing world affairs is creating a toxic environment for Jewish children and any who don't go along with the groupthink. I'd apply the same principle to discussing Ukraine. What if there was a child there of Russian heritage? This is a licence to bully.

Children can talk about all the things that interest them in their own time, with their friends and family. Let the schools get on with teaching not propaganda.

In 2023 some schools had a Strike for Palestine and children went on demos during class time. Parents were behind the organisation of it. Crazy that schools are getting involved in this.

Except they weren't called 'activist teachers' when kids were waving the Ukrainian flag in school were they? That's something that's been invented specifically for teachers who don't like watching Palestinian children and their schools being blown up. They were just called teachers when Ukraine was the cause and they were lauded for standing in solidarity with Ukraine. That's why there are so many photos across the Internet of British school children with their little Ukrainian flags, it was seen as heartwarming. I wonder why that is?

You are a teacher. Why did a teacher suddenly become an 'activist teacher' instead of just 'teacher' when the Ukrainian flag is replaced with a Palestinian one?

So where were all of the activists on this thread when it was Russian kids in the toxic environment? Were the Russian kids suffering not important enough for people to speak up about? Were you too intimidated by the Ukrainian flag wavers to say something, anything at all? I mean the silence was deafening, you just let those poor Russian children sit in toxic British classrooms and said nothing, you let the press laud Ukrainian flag waving as if it was a positive thing, why?

1. Ukraine wasn’t a heated topic in schools. It was possible to discuss it fairly.
2. There weren’t weekly marches about Ukraine
3. Russians in the UK are not persecuted in the same way as the Jewish community has been.

A very different situation and a false analogy.

Sarcasm surely ?

Are you not advocating "Groupthink" yourself here ?

Take China for example. So far as I am aware politics is banned in schools there. There is no politics at all, not in the western sense. Would you not call that groupthink. As in, someone says " lets talk about democracy", and the unanimous reply is, " no, that is banned".

Or Trumpism as another example. Where he wants "patriotism" taught. Or religious schools, where subjects are taught with whatever slant of that religion.

In your model, a pupil might ask during a geography lesson, " Miss, can we talk about the war there?". And if the teacher replies " No, we are banned from discussing that", then would that not be groupthink ?

If groupthink is about people in a group being under pressure to conform to the group, then surely banning certain discussion subjects is state sanctioned groupthink ? As in enforced conformity.

My opinion.
As a parent you may choose to give a partisan viewpoint to your child, they will discover how socially acceptable that is in the world outside their home depending where that is and how widely they travel.
State schools are tools of the state and will be controlled as that. The interesting thing will be what is sanctioned by the mechanisms of the state and how and why.

The situation in Gaza is so emotive and polarised that even adults on here find it difficult to remain courteous in discussion. Imagine introducing that debate into a classroom full of hormone fuelled teenagers whose age and maturity means they are predisposed to see things as black and white rather than nuanced.
Imagine how it would feel to be a minority view point in a classroom like that.
Do you think many teenagers would be able to have a balanced debate and then go to lunch break chatting amicably to people whose views they disagreed with? That might be the case in certain schools- but not in the inner city schools I’ve taught in.
The biggest responsibility ( even before education) is to keep the children in our care safe. If this debate means some children will feel vulnerable and marginalised then it should not occur. There are plenty of other debates to be had to help them develop debating skill . This has nothing to do with “Groupthink “ and everything to do with keeping children safe in education.

That's right.

@RedTagAlan and myself have both had comments deleted on the CITME board so you're right, it is hard to remain courteous in discussion.

If even we as adults tend to see those with different opinions in rather too much of a negative way, there's no hope teenagers will be able to discuss this emotive subject without arguing, bullying etc.

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, there was a huge flurry of horror and public support for Ukraine and then it largely dissipated despite the fact that the war is ongoing.

Hamas led an attack on Israel in 2023, raping, torturing, murdering and taking hostages which is what prompted this latest surge of support for Palestine, as Israel have retaliated in an extremely brutal and excessive fashion. There has been a ceasefire of sorts for a year.

I mean, if you want to compare the two, why are people so fervent about still discussing Israel/Gaza when Russia/Ukraine has pretty much fallen off the radar?

That’s why I’m referring to ‘activist’ teachers here. To still want to be discussing Israel/Gaza in classrooms when it isn’t a major topical issue suggests a dedication to a ‘cause’ beyond normal interest in the news.

Quote "This has nothing to do with “Groupthink “ and everything to do with keeping children safe in education."

Well yes. That is why I am making a point against a poster who is saying it is "groupthink".

As for the report, I am sure it will be a perfectly good report, with recommendations that should be acted on.

Going back to "everything to do with keeping children safe in education.". Hmm. Not so sure. Picture a scenario of a Muslim school, kid puts her hand up and says " I don't think Mohammed is true, I believe in Jesus". Do you then say -

" Do you think many teenagers would be able to have a balanced debate and then go to lunch break chatting amicably to people whose views they disagreed with?"

Or a pupil sticks their hand up and says " Please Miss, there is no God".

At what point does discussion and debate start ? Or should schools be sterile of ideas and thinkers? Who decides what is off limits? Hypothetical questions of course.

If there is a danger that a debate will lead to bullying or disorder then it’s off limits until the children/ young people are able to debate respectfully.
I’ve had lots of debates in classrooms - sometimes you have to interject to remind that that other people might think differently to them and they are entitled to their views ( eg on religion) and you remind them that in a civilised society we need to be respectful of people whose views are different to ours.
Unfortunately- when it comes to an emotive current situation children ( and adults) find it hard to be respectful of all views and that is when schools have to protect children from polarising debates that could lead to bullying.

Ukraine has been top headlines for a few days now. It is far from off the radar.

When did you last see a Palestinian flag being waved or displayed versus when did you last see a Ukrainian one?

You know what I mean.

Or marches in central London on a regular basis..

I don't know what you mean sorry.

Blimey.

You are aware, for example, that the Green Party just voted for Israel to be got rid of as a country, as party policy?

That rioters in France were seen carrying Palestinian flags?

That protestors in the UK marched for Palestine on the anniversary of the October 7th massacre despite being asked not to?

It’s not normal as treatment of conflicts go.

So when schools welcome Ukrainian refugee children, as ours did, are you saying teachers should not discuss with their pupils why they are here? Should the children themselves have been banned from discussing the Russian atrocities they witnessed with their English peers perhaps? Should they have been banned from gifting Ukrainian flags and treats to their new classmates?

When British schools welcomed kindertransport children in 1939, should no mention have been made of the invasion of Poland and the subsequent pogroms?

I suspect it varies by where you live. We are rural and I have never seen a Palestinian flag. By contrast we have taken on a large number of Ukrainian refugees locally and support remains very high - it’s very common to see UA flags. Our village infants school and the church (both CofE) fly one below the Union Flag.