Israel votes for death penalty for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks

[CanAnybodyFindMe]

“Israel's far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir wore a noose pin on his lapel to signal his support for the bill”

I first heard about this on Facebook and thought it might be anti-Israel fake news. But no, it’s true.

Absolutely horrifying and sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8dkd6lnjdo

There are a worrying number of racists in positions of power in Israel: G’vir, Smotrich and Israel Katz. There may be others that I don’t know of.

I really hope Israelis vote the current government out as soon as possible.

It would be both tragic and ironic if Israel ended up a racist theocracy, similar to the countries that have threatened them for decades.

The example for gun crime is not appropriate - firstly the discrepancy in statistics of those affected will be far more stark. I hazard to guess that 100% (or close to) of those who are at risk of being executed by this new law will not be from of the majority population.

Also with knife laws, it does not discriminate between who is killed, but this new law being discussed here will do.

A definition of terrorism:

violent* action or threats designed to cause fear among ordinary people, in order to achieve political *aims

There are actions being taken against Palestinians which would fulfil this with the clear aim is to negate the existence of a Palestinian state.

I get that the county is in a war, but the law can still be viewed as discriminatory and of concern amongst allies. I don’t think this will keep people safer, but will adversely impact international opinion. The latter view is also of concerns amongst some Knesset members too. I do hope more liberal voices in the country can transcend what is happening, for the sake of all Israeli citizens.

The Israeli Government is already and has been for a long time racist based on its different treatment of Arab Israelis

That’s been very clear for a long time
You either treat your citizens equally ….therefore not racist
or you don’t ….therefore racist
Israel is the later

See
@CanAnybodyFindMe post at 9:56 am today
A news article indicating opinion in Israel over time which I believe is far more relevant than a few people on mumsnet. The opinion of a few in tells us very little

Of note
An overwhelming majority support the death penalty
I assume Israeli Arabs weren’t asked given the high support stated
however even jpost wasnt sure on that

Thank you. I just read it - that makes more sense why so many voted for the bill if it is the majority view point.

Interesting article indeed.

The Knesset approved the law on Monday, after months of debate. That legislative step does not prove consensus, but it does suggest that many lawmakers believed the issue carried broad legitimacy within the Jewish electorate, especially after October 7.

Readers outside of Israel should also be careful not to map Israeli politics too neatly onto American categories. In the US, support for capital punishment is often read through arguments about crime and punishment.

In Israel, this debate sits inside a different frame, one shaped by terrorism, war, hostage-taking, and the belief, widely held in the Jewish public, that a life sentence may not always be final in a region where prisoners have repeatedly been released in exchanges.

It is always important to put one one another’s shoes before judging. Do you post this as a way of critical posters being more understanding?

Now think what it is like to be trying to live innocently in the West Bank as a Palestinian and the many trials that this life brings. Imagine your fellow citizens or your own home being burned, not being able to farm your land, being corralled into an area where your coming and goings are monitored, your kids being frisked, arrested and assaulted in prison. Imagine your neighbours and their children returning from shopping for a religious festival being shot dead by soldiers. Imagine this having gone on for many years. Now - do you think they should introduce the death penalty for soldiers and settlers who kill Palestinian civilians? I would hope not - even despite appreciating the suffering of victims.

This was such a touching article from a different perspective:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/21/a-hidden-universe-of-suffering-the-palestinian-children-sent-to-jail

Thanks
‘ Broad legitimacy amongst Jewish electorate’ as I posted.
No mention of the Arab Israelis then
Mmm I didn’t think so

Putting yourself in others shoes before judging also applies to trying to understand why the idea of the death penalty for terrorism may carry more legitimacy with the Jewish electorate - as the article points out, especially after October 7th.

To someone in the UK, we see a life sentence as pretty final. In Israel, many of the electorate may have a different perspective because a life sentence may not always be final in a region where prisoners have repeatedly been released in exchanges.

Not that I am personally in favour of the death penalty but the article does make several interesting points including this one.

Well yes if you ask the Jewish Israelis only it seems it is their viewpoint because of course
This isn’t a death sentence for them is it
its a death sentence for Muslims only

So you think the suffering of Palestinians would provide just as much legitimacy for Palestinians to introduce the death penalty for those killing their citizens?

@Pineneedlesincarpet
Its interesting the trials are held in a military court though, suggesting they are military combatants but are being charged with terrorist offences

Have you only just discovered the existence of the Israel and Palestine conflict? Writing this shows you know nothing.

All Palestinians except for a few with Israeli citizenship that also live in East Jerusalem are tried in military courts because they are under military occupation. Anyone Jewish no matter where they live - even if they live on Palestinian land- is always tried in the civilian courts.

This has been the case since 1967.

Being tried in a military court doesn’t suggest anything to do with the accused being enemy combatants or terrorists, it is where all Palestinians are tried.

The fact that Israel has separate justice systems divided by ethnicity was one of the reasons why the ICJ ruled that Israel is an apartheid state.

Muslims and Christians.

@Pineneedlesincarpet
It would be ridiculous not to have a law against knife crime just because statistically one ethnic group are more likely to commit knife crime. That's not discriminatory. It's just fact. I'm not sure why some people on this thread have failed to understand this point. Similarly in the Palestinian case, just because one group are more likely to commit a particular crime doesn't mean you shouldnt have a law against that crime.

No one has failed to understand your points, they are rubbish points because we aren’t dealing with a country that has one set of laws and one justice system for everyone.

The problem with the Israeli law is that Israel has two separate justice systems, Jewish criminals go though the civilian justice system and Palestinians criminals go through the military courts set up by the occupation. These two separate justice systems have different definitions of crimes and different penalties. A Jewish kid throwing rocks at Palestinian cars is not a terrorist, they aren’t commuting a crime, in fact they get applauded. A Palestinian kid throwing rocks at Jewish cars is guilty of terrorism and is subjected to years in prison, although with this new law they could be executed as soon as they turn 18 in prison.
Under the Jewish civilian justice system, rampaging through a Palestinian village setting cars and homes on fire, raping women, beating Palestinians to death and blocking ambulances is heroism, but if a Palestinian attempts to harvest their own olives in their own lands, they’re terrorists planning an attack on an illegal settlement.

It’s nothing like passing a law against knife crime in the UK when the law applies to everyone in the UK and the penalties are the same for everyone in the UK.

It would be similar if we passed knife crime laws that only applied to black people stabbing white people in which the penalty was death and then we had a different justice system for white people where it’s not only ok to stab as many black people as you want, you’d get a medal if you managed to stab an entire family all by yourself.

Quite right thanks for the correction there

👏👏 touché

If they wanted to introduce the death penalty for those convicted of lethal terrorist attacks it would be somewhat understandable, yes.

Though again I wouldn't agree with it as I don't support the death penalty.

Concur @Twiglets1 the taking of life is wrong.

While it is absolutely horrendous it basically means that Israel is suggesting doing what Palestinians are doing to Israelis already. The only reason it resonates so badly is because Israel supposed to be more "enlightened", democratic and West-like. Which they are not anymore - they are becoming very similar to its neighbours.

Shame its a race to the bottom but there are no "good guys" or innocent sides in this conflict.

How do you therefore explain that there are Arab Israelis elected to the Knesset? Out of 120 MKs there are currently 12 Arab Israelis in the Knesset.
There are approximately 2 million Arab Israeli citizens.

I agree. The 7 October pogrom affected everyone in Israel in some form or another and goes a long way to understand why the bill went through.

All Palestinians except for a few with Israeli citizenship

'A few with Israeli citizenship' Far from a few but don't let facts get in the way of your hyperbole! Palestinian, aka Arab Israelis with full citizenship, count for 20% of the population, around 2 million people.

How anyone can defend or applaud the wearing of golden nooses and champagne celebrations of the ability to legally kill prisoners is beyond me. Be the best you can be. None of us were raised to behave like this.

You don’t even need to go googling. Mumsnetters on here have already given examples for you

Not any old prisoners though, is it?
They would be convicted terrorist murderers.

I’m not surprised at the faux outrage.