Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

I have no idea of the figures and haven't mentioned Islam or Muslims.

I mean there's over 4 million Muslims in the UK and less than 300k Jews...so there will be more mosques than synagogues. I have no idea if mosques have their own security or need added security measures.

I was asking why you think the Jewish community need extra security? Do you think we're just paranoid?

But the Muslim community is much bigger than the Jewish community and you must remember lots of us , including me, go about our lives without anyone knowing we're Jewish. If there were millions of us and we were more identifiable, then anti Semitism would be even higher.

I mean I don't wear my star of David in public anymore and I am too scared to tell anyone irl that I'm Jewish. Is this all in my head?

I'm not quite sure why you are being so dramatic. Jesus H christ indeed.

As I said an MP <these people are voted in, so they do represent folks views> submitted a petition mainly about doing genocides oh but hang on quick add in about isrsali thugs to. So if he says Jews aren't welcome I don't think it's a stretch to believe his constituents agree. Yes I 'have a straight face', I don't tend to post gurning, do you?

Oh no but hang on, apparently if some black people or some gay people had behaved badly previously then you ban them all en masse it seems.

No of course not. Is anti-Islamic sentiment in the heads of those subjected to it?

Will you acknowledge that each is as bad as the other?

The whole premise of this thread is flawed. The idea that a group of football supporters with a long track record of violence and hate of the highest order - celebrating the deaths of children, FGS - has been banned because they are Israeli and is therefore anti-Semitic is demonstrably nonsense. Many fan clubs with an history of violence from all over the world have been subject to the same policing decisions.

Many, many people are becoming increasingly fed up with the idea that Israeli automatically=good, that any criticism whatsoever of anyone associated with the country is somehow anti-Semitic. It is chipping away at and watering down the meaning of a historic term that describes a very real problem. Just as anti-Islamic sentiment is a very real problem.

The decision of the police is not anti-Semitic. It is about maintaining public order, nothing more, nothing less, as is the force’s duty and remit.

I can’t understand why anyone without bias can’t see that.

But the reason given for banning the Macabi fans was not because of alleged football hooliganism but because they are Israelis and or Jewish.

The idea that this is all because of football hooliganism is simply to try and hide overt anti semitism.

At least be honest.

My point was that the people who run the game banned the Polish fans. They were enforcing a ban generally. It wasn’t localised and it was on the basis of those fans’ violent behaviour.

If the Italians are frequently banning away support it sounds as though they’re being even-handed about many clubs and just don’t want the cost and agg of the policing. (Sounds a bit dodgy though. I can see why opponents would be unhappy.)

But the main point is that we don’t know why the Villa decision was taken.

A pp has said the police are experts. Well, ok, let’s say all the people are experts. Did they expertly advise that Maccabi fans are so numerous and violent that the threat from them was too great? Or did they expertly advise that the likelihood of violence from anti-Israel groups was too great? Or maybe both? In the second two cases it would be outrageous to ban Jewish fans because anti-Israel protesters are violent.

Nothing that’s been reported answers that question.

But posters continue to argue that it’s all about Maccabi fans’ violence. There’s nothing to support that. Reference to Amsterdam doesn’t tell us because the authorities there said the violence erupted, at least in part, from antisemitism.

Racism is dramatic, as is hatred based on religion, whomsoever it is directed at. Do you at least agree on that?

For the umpteenth time on this thread, the decision to prevent the “fans” travelling to Aston Villa was not made by the MP but by the police authorities based upon all available information. It is not an example of racism or anti-Semitism but a clear cut, pragmatic decision to ensure safety of the local residents and home fans, some of whom are no doubt Jewish.

Your bias is transparent. If you have not already done so, please listen to yesterday’s Any Answers where the considerable majority of Jewish respondents supported the decision. They were well informed about the “fans” history and obviously not anti-Semitic.

Some football fans. Some. We do have facial recognition and all kinds of technology nowadays that enables folk to be identified individually rather than this blanket 'they're a fan they must be thug' ideology. One of the hostages Emily Damari is a fan, is she a hooligan to be banned too?

Can you really not see that for a pro pal MP to submit a petition to ban Jews stinks?

Yes I can see it suits some to cling to the 'but they are violent thugs' story but we all know if the MP talks of genocides, his constituents will do too and that will be the real reason they aren't welcome.

It'll be a wake up call to other MPs and other councils that if you try to get away with this crap people will challenge you and call you out for what it is.

Please show me the statement from the Chief Constable where he said the ban was because these people were Israel or Jewish and nothing to do with their violent track record.
Have Jewish Aston Villa fans been banned? No, of course not.

This thread is becoming increasingly ridiculous.

Why because many disagree with the simplistic 'they're all thugs' mentality that has come from a vocal free palestine MP?

The ridiculous thing is the organisers didn't see this coming.

Just no reasoning with some people who have very clearly made up their mind based on their own sympathies and will not be budged from it regardless of any evidence.

It was an independent police decision. No more to be said, really. Have a good evening.

I can’t see that at all.

You’re clinging to the belief that the ban was all about violence from Jewish fans. Others, like me, are saying you have no evidence for that at all.

If the police ban fans because their presence would upset people and the upset people will provoke violence, then I totally understand the police’s position. They’re in the frontline. They’d prefer peace and quiet. But it is still an outrage to ban (Jewish) people because of others’ hatred of them.

'It was an independent police decision. No more to be said, really. Have a good evening'

Based on pressure from MPs, councils and various alleged 'safety' groups.

It's fine not have anything more to say, it is indefensible I agree. Surely it'll be overturned though.

The ridiculous thing is the organisers didn't see this coming.

That I will absolutely agree with you on.

I am absolutely amazed (yet also not remotely surprised) that the moment the draw was made there wasn't high level involvement with the Safety Action Group (who actually made this decision about the safety certificate - includes the police but isn't their sole call) and an early decision, either way, made.

Unfortunately we have imported sectarianism. Birmingham now being majority Muslim and the police in any area is required to reflect its population. And knows it is unable to protect the Jewish fans and has banned them from the match unsurprisingly, because the rioting would probably be monumental.

The police based the decision on intelligence provided by UEFA, but yes, do continue to willfully disregard all known facts about MTA as nonsense. You cannot see what's right in front of your face.

This is pure fantasy...

I don't think it will be. The police would be unable to contain the rioting. They obviously appreciate there is a clear danger from opponents for the small number of Israeli fans that would attend. I'm not surprised at all they've said they can't do it.

No. Because someone has just popped up and claimed the “reason given” (by whom? Certainly not the Chief Constable) that a cohort of fans, many of whom have been violent on many occasions, have a reputation for it, there for all to see from numerous credible sources, have been banned only because they are Israeli or Jewish, nothing whatsoever to do with a proven track record of just that. Demonstrably nonsense and illegal at that. As the police would be perfectly well aware.
Making up rubbish to suit your argument is just stupid. Hope you’d call it out too.

I’m so sorry for your experience. So sad & extremely unfair.

No of course not. Is anti-Islamic sentiment in the heads of those subjected to it?

I don't know why you keep asking me about Islamophobia? I haven't said anything about it nor have I minimised it unlike the various posters on here who constantly try to minimise anti Semitism.

Thank u for your kindness