The Flotilla and Greta - a PR disaster

[BewaretheIckabog]

To think the flotilla and unsubstantiated reports of Greta’s mistreatment have caused a massive detriment to the pro-Palestinian cause.

So many people who have said little on this issue are now appalled that the idea the flotilla members are claiming they have been kidnapped and tortured by the Israelis.

Comments I’ve heard are, if you want to talk about torture and kidnap, watch the bodycom footage from 7 October. Google Shani Louk and Evyatar David.

Even the idea that her fellow protestors were horrified that the I D F pulled ‘little Greta’s hair’ (she’s a full grown woman) don’t sit well.

The accusations from the flotilla are the Israelis are indiscriminate war criminals and slaughterers - why would hair-pulling be noteworthy - after all they are allegedly intent on genocide.

When will useful idiots realise stupid PR stunts are so far from what this situation needs and realise they do more harm than good?

How can the Hamas list of victims be recognised as authoritative by Israel’s military? Do you have any links to prove that? The Guardian article links to an article about a retired IDF chief who was misquoted as saying 200,000 were dead. The recording of him speaking was in Hebrew.

You're telling me Hamas has ‘strict rules’ about inflating death figures?

Do they know how many were killed or injured by their own rockets fired indiscriminately from tents, IEDs, landmines, crossfire or deliberate shootings, executions, and the use of child soldiers?

You do realise the IDF evacuates areas before they bomb the tunnels and booby trapped buildings? There is plenty of evidence of Gazans showing the leaflets and telephone calls as well as them having their phones ready to record buildings coming down, so how it is being estimated there are people under the rubble of destroyed buildings?

Why would the war’s indirect victims be included in the casualty figures and why would they be classed as victims? Gaza has around 6,000 deaths a year from non conflict related reasons such as old age and illness. That would equate to 12,000 two years in. Hamas does not distinguish between natural and conflict related deaths so it is assumed this figure is included in the death toll.

blogs.timesofisrael.com/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-40000-deaths-in-gaza/

Every war creates a shortage of essentials, although it can be evidenced that Israel has facilitated more aid into Gaza than in any other war. They have no control over how Hamas uses it or distributes it when it’s inside Gaza.

There would be a lot more than 150 child deaths of starvation in two years if there was really was a famine in Gaza. At the famine level declared by the IPC, there would be 400 deaths A DAY by now. How many of those 150 children had pre-existing medical conditions like the children used as propaganda all over the news recently?

There were 436 deaths involving malnutrition in the UK in 2022 btw.

War is horrendous for civilians and certainly there have been lots of deaths and suffering, just as there is in every other war going on right now but your anti Israel propaganda doesn’t wash with me, and why has Hamas not surrendered before now or agreed to the current peace deal yet?

so the deaths of 20,000 plus children is anti Israeli propaganda??
I am sorry facts are inconvenient to your viewpoint

Rights groups, genocide scholars, international politicians and a UN commission have concluded that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, citing evidence including mass killings of civilians.

The scale of child casualties dwarfs those from conflicts in Israel and occupied Palestinian territory and the broader region in recent

In Iraq over the 15-year period that encompassed the rise and destruction of the Islamic State “caliphate”, between 2008 and 2022, the UN verified 3,119 child deaths in war.

Pedantic much? OK. FURTHER highlighted it. You feel better with the adverb added?

Sorry, I just don’t see any valuable contribution from Greta and her activist mates 🤷‍♀️
Just trying to draw attention to themselves while there are actual peace talks happening.

I couldn’t see any facts in your post.

Did I miss them?

It clearly is anti Israel propaganda.

Happy for you to challenge any of the points I made in that post.

20,000 dead children is a fact
That a blockade existed is a fact
that Israeli deliberately block sufficient aid entering Gaza is a fact.
That Israel has deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure needed to sustain the civilian population in contravention of international law is a fact, water infrastructure, bakeries and hospitals
would you like me to continue this has been extensively documented, you already know just doesn’t fit your narrative

I don’t take anti-Israel quangos and lefty politicians assertions as facts I’m afraid.

The UN commission does not speak on behalf of the UN not that the UN are any less bias against Israel.

I don’t think you meant ‘dwarfs’ in your 2nd paragraph.

I don’t think even ISIS used their children as human sacrifices did they? Iraqis were able to flee to safe refuge. Iraq is also at least 25 times bigger than Gaza and there wasn’t the terrorist tunnel infrastructure as in Gaza which makes a big difference in terms of spread out warfare and civilian collateral.

Not really really comparable is it?

Nope.

20,000 dead children killed by Israel is not a fact.

A legal blockade existed due to Palestinian terrorism and the security threat to Israel arising from that, that is a fact. Egypt also has a blockade with Gaza for the same reason.

Hamas using civilian infrastructure for military purposes means that they are legitimate military targets.

Continue if you want to.

How come a poster has seen rows and rows of dead Gazan children, but has not seen the Hamas and Gazan filmed atrocities against Israelis and adjacents?
It makes no chronological sense, considering that 7/10/23 is what caused the "rows" of dead Gazan children.

I mean, if one's algorithms are set up for continuous doom scrolling, why not start at the root of this particular conflict?

Or just be honest and say that one cares not about death per se, just that one needs a constant reminder to know why one needs to beat Israel over the head for, with no contextual distraction.

Only the reaction matters. Not the action.
The losers win , the more that they lose.
Nothing must detract from the losers losing , to win.

Minds must be like overcooked linguine, dealing with the lack of linear thinking.

This started way before 7/10.

Awareness! Speaking up for those who have no voice! Better than sitting on the sofa posting on Mumsnet (I include myself in this). Whether you think it's misguided or not - least they are trying to help people who are starving and have little to no medical aid. If you can help just one person then surely it's worth trying.

But everyone’s aware already, that’s the whole point.

Exactly - they felt strongly about something and tried to do something about it!

Some people literally spend entire days here spamming the boards with pro Israel content - pushing any counter arguments down the boards as they all just repeat each other and ignore any evidence of genocide! It’s a full time job being an arm chair soldier.

Stop denying the genocide

The Palestinians already have a very pretty big ‘voice’.

They have a seat at the UN. They have the UN in Gaza. They have multiple international NGOs on the ground in Gaza. Hundreds of interviews in the media talking about them. Constant presence on SM platforms (often asking for donations), Concerts dedicated to them, their flag is everywhere, even projected onto buildings, marches and protests every week for two years. They have had world leaders talking incessantly about them, even politicians elected for their stance on Gaza. Boycotts in their name, Jews murdered in their name…..

I have never seen such a tiny strip of land being given such a voice.

Greta and her Jew hating mates just jumped on the virtue signalling bandwagon wagon.

Got her and the rest of them loads of exposure.

What genocide?

Indeed they have a huge voice, loud and quite nasty on the marches or protests. Why pretend they dont have a voice. They have a vast online army on X etc all pushing their voice.

Now the people of Sudan don't have a voice, that is true.

I know she refused to watch the October 7th footage last time Israel 'abducted' her but it seems like she hasn't actually engaged with any news that's critical of Hamas if she didn't recognise that picture as an Israeli hostage?

I wouldn't want to assume she has either the intelligence or integrity to do either, @noblegiraffe, or that she has any real interest in anything beyond the current "fashionable" cause

IME of such folk they seek out only those things which will back their own position and hang the accuracy, so I can quite see them finding an image of a starving man and thinking "Ooooo this'll do!!" without any further thought

It says something about these people that they would use a picture of a deliberately starved Israeli adult male hostage as evidence of starvation in Gaza because there are no pictures of starved Palestinian adult males coming out of Gaza.

Kind of blows that propaganda out of the water (excuse the pun).

Despite the so called famine, I have yet to see any pictures of Palestinian adult males looking as if they are starving.

I haven't heard much comment about Greta and the others tbh. Most people think the flotillas are futile while being broadly sympathetic to their aims.

Itamar Ben Gvir's deranged rant at the captive crew members was a bit of an own goal.

Despite the so called famine, I have yet to see any pictures of Palestinian adult males looking as if they are starving

You probably willl now, @TicklishMauveSquid, though whether such images show what they purport to is - as with Greta - sometimes open to question

Nobody disputes that the situation's ghastly, though opinions differ on the reasons for it, but it beggars belief that some take what's said by the local, Hamas-run health authorities, various aid agencies and Israel too as read

In the race to produce the worst picture to create support and/or money, the truth too often comes a poor second

What do people think to this?

Par for the course.

Well I certainly don’t agree with it. I doubt many here would. The handover of the hostages was stomach churning in general. The people I personally know on the flotilla would not agree with it either.

Was this posted recently? The official flotilla handle for insta is GazaFreedomFlotilla. I can’t share because it always shares your personal account.