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Conflict in the Middle East

Free Palestine

244 replies

mommyandmore · 26/09/2025 20:57

Please forgive my ignorance! Please can someone tell me the history of this? I have obviously seen and read what has unfolded over the past year but I’d really like someone to break down what’s happening. The things I’m seeing are horrific! Thanks and please no sarky comments, I’m really wanting to educate myself further about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 16:59

PurpleThistle7 · 28/09/2025 16:25

Everyone seems to forget that Egypt isn’t letting the people through either. The 57 Muslim countries aren’t exactly falling over themselves to help.

At the end of the day, Jews were significantly worse off before Israel became a state than after. For thousands of years we have been persecuted and murdered and hated. The Israelis (who aren’t partying and feasting or whatever. They’re running to bomb shelters and sending their young adults off to a war zone) are the front line to protect every single Jewish person worldwide. If they all march off into the sea as per that horrific chant I hear outside my office weekly, then that? Hamas and the Taliban and whoever owns the entire region, Jews have no safety net again and we all know where that goes.

I would love to think there’s an option besides this horror show but I’m struggling to see what that would even look like. Hamas wants us all dead. How do you negotiate with that? It seems inherently impossible.

I take it you apply equal criticism to the reigning Israeli party's policy that from the river to the sea there shall only be Israel? It's literally in their manifesto.

And of course people are feasting. People still have plenty to eat in Israel. People still go to restaurants, have parties, have weddings. Meanwhile, children stops death just a few miles away because the same country is committing genocide as a revenge act.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/09/2025 17:00

itsnotveryfriendlyhereisit · 28/09/2025 16:49

Israel took control of the crossing during the war, and as of July 2025 it is managed by the Gaza Division of the IDF.

I'm sure the Egyptians will be amused to know a random Mumsnetter knows better than them about the status of their own border 😁

itsnotveryfriendlyhereisit · 28/09/2025 17:02

Your Egyptian newspaper article won’t open for me. Shame.

Google who controls the Rafah Crossing, see what it says and get back to me.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/09/2025 17:04

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 16:56

Well we all know what'll happen if Egypt allowed to go into Rafah, against Israel's will. I mean they've bombed Lebanon, Qatar, Syria, Yemen, as well as have and killing people in the west bank.

It'll just be bombed like everywhere else.

And all those countries attacked Israel first, apart from Qatar although they've harboured Hamas leaders for years and were forewarned what would happen

Maybe if countries don't want Israel to retaliate and defend itself, they should leave Israel alone 🤷‍♀️

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 17:13

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 16:59

I take it you apply equal criticism to the reigning Israeli party's policy that from the river to the sea there shall only be Israel? It's literally in their manifesto.

And of course people are feasting. People still have plenty to eat in Israel. People still go to restaurants, have parties, have weddings. Meanwhile, children stops death just a few miles away because the same country is committing genocide as a revenge act.

I'm willing to bet you have no connections to anyone living in Israel or you would not typify life in the shadow of 7 October & ongoing war & terrorism as 'feasting'. Sure they have enough food & large parts of life go on as normal because they built a thriving society, one that protects its citizens. When Israel withdrew from Gaza they could have done the same. Hamas chose not to.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:19

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 17:13

I'm willing to bet you have no connections to anyone living in Israel or you would not typify life in the shadow of 7 October & ongoing war & terrorism as 'feasting'. Sure they have enough food & large parts of life go on as normal because they built a thriving society, one that protects its citizens. When Israel withdrew from Gaza they could have done the same. Hamas chose not to.

Don't be silly.

They literally tried to build an airport. Israel bombed it.

They try to build a port. Israel bombed it.

They weren't allowed the nice stuff, because Israel kept destroying it.

Israel prevented them from even having paper at one stage, crayons, chocolate. They controlled everything. They literally worked out how many calories they needed to allow in. The people had a crap life because Israel kept them in a siege-like state for 20 years.

Incidentally, the main justification for stopping kids eating passata, was in case they used it for weapons somehow. Ignoring that every time they bomb Gaza, Hamas gather and recycled the materials into the rockets. The biggest source of weapons to Hamas was the IDF.

But clearly banning penne was more important.
The restrictions were designed to break the will of the people, make life miserable.

PurpleThistle7 · 28/09/2025 17:22

Me? Not particularly. It’s currently Israel and it seems a good policy to keep your country… a country. Most countries have a goal of keeping their borders secure. Do you think Israel should have a manifesto of porous borders and freedom of movement?

Like several other topics, it’s actually impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this. Too much history and too much emotion.

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 17:27

PurpleThistle7 · 28/09/2025 17:22

Me? Not particularly. It’s currently Israel and it seems a good policy to keep your country… a country. Most countries have a goal of keeping their borders secure. Do you think Israel should have a manifesto of porous borders and freedom of movement?

Like several other topics, it’s actually impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this. Too much history and too much emotion.

Agreed. I don't think there's any point in trying to progress a sensible conversation.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:29

PurpleThistle7 · 28/09/2025 17:22

Me? Not particularly. It’s currently Israel and it seems a good policy to keep your country… a country. Most countries have a goal of keeping their borders secure. Do you think Israel should have a manifesto of porous borders and freedom of movement?

Like several other topics, it’s actually impossible to have a reasonable conversation about this. Too much history and too much emotion.

Okay, so you've got two different groups with competing rights over the land, and when Israel says from 'the river to the sea it's ours' that's perfectly right, good policy, nothing to see here. But when the other side say the same thing, it's because they want you dead and to be marched into the sea...

And somehow you call me unreasonable.
Have you actually heard yourself.
Try saying it from someone else's perspective for a moment and you'll see the hypocrisy.

All Humans are equal. Your life is not worth more or less than the person next to you. And Israeli life is not worth more or less than a Palestinian life.

If both sides are making the same comment, one cannot behave and the other okay. Either both are okay or both are hate, unless you don't believe people are equal.

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 17:31

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:29

Okay, so you've got two different groups with competing rights over the land, and when Israel says from 'the river to the sea it's ours' that's perfectly right, good policy, nothing to see here. But when the other side say the same thing, it's because they want you dead and to be marched into the sea...

And somehow you call me unreasonable.
Have you actually heard yourself.
Try saying it from someone else's perspective for a moment and you'll see the hypocrisy.

All Humans are equal. Your life is not worth more or less than the person next to you. And Israeli life is not worth more or less than a Palestinian life.

If both sides are making the same comment, one cannot behave and the other okay. Either both are okay or both are hate, unless you don't believe people are equal.

Who on this thread said Israel should be 'from the river to the sea'?

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:36

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 17:31

Who on this thread said Israel should be 'from the river to the sea'?

The ruling Likud party.

TicklishMauveSquid · 28/09/2025 17:50

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:19

Don't be silly.

They literally tried to build an airport. Israel bombed it.

They try to build a port. Israel bombed it.

They weren't allowed the nice stuff, because Israel kept destroying it.

Israel prevented them from even having paper at one stage, crayons, chocolate. They controlled everything. They literally worked out how many calories they needed to allow in. The people had a crap life because Israel kept them in a siege-like state for 20 years.

Incidentally, the main justification for stopping kids eating passata, was in case they used it for weapons somehow. Ignoring that every time they bomb Gaza, Hamas gather and recycled the materials into the rockets. The biggest source of weapons to Hamas was the IDF.

But clearly banning penne was more important.
The restrictions were designed to break the will of the people, make life miserable.

What country would allow people who were sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up into their shopping malls and discos and pizza parlours, to operate their own airport?

What country would allow people who were sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up into their shopping malls and discos and pizza parlours, to operate their own port?

They weren't allowed those because they kept trying to destroy Israel (fixed it for you).

That was BEFORE Palestinians voted in a terrorist org as their government who had a charter to annihilate Israel and kill all the Jews.

Gaza actually looked very nice before Oct 7th. They certainly had a lot of nice stuff, well the ones who were building mansions and driving high end cars did anyway. Gazans were obviously able to leave Gaza to work, study and even move abroad. They were able to work and access medical care in Israel despite their government vowing to destroy Israel.

I can imagine life was and is very miserable under Hamas constantly attacking Israel, and torturing and executing anyone they accused of being a collaborator.

PurpleThistle7 · 28/09/2025 18:11

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:29

Okay, so you've got two different groups with competing rights over the land, and when Israel says from 'the river to the sea it's ours' that's perfectly right, good policy, nothing to see here. But when the other side say the same thing, it's because they want you dead and to be marched into the sea...

And somehow you call me unreasonable.
Have you actually heard yourself.
Try saying it from someone else's perspective for a moment and you'll see the hypocrisy.

All Humans are equal. Your life is not worth more or less than the person next to you. And Israeli life is not worth more or less than a Palestinian life.

If both sides are making the same comment, one cannot behave and the other okay. Either both are okay or both are hate, unless you don't believe people are equal.

I guess I just don’t see how this is in any way unique. The Native American population would say there are people on their land. The native Australian people would say the same. There are likely other versions of this story as well but I don’t know them as well.

At some point, humanity agreed that if you win a fight for it, it’s yours to defend. Hence all the castles on the borders of so many countries. And the endless fighting in Ukraine. And and and.

The Jewish settlers purchased the land - often swamps or deserts - and put the backbreaking work into making this unwanted territory into a modern country with roads and hospitals and universities. They then rescued or welcomed Jews from all over the world who had few options or who wanted to feel safer. I think people have the right to sell their property and other people have the right to buy it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honesting · 28/09/2025 18:39

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xenogear · 28/09/2025 18:50

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 28/09/2025 17:36

The ruling Likud party.

There are Likud MPs on this thread? Which ones?

1dayatatime · 28/09/2025 19:00

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 16:29

The op seems to have scarpered.

They always do on these "I don't know much about or excuse my ignorance but could someone please explain [insert a controversial statement about Gaza or Israel]" type posts.

Basically they are always used to rile people up and shit stir. It was obvious from the start.

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 19:06

1dayatatime · 28/09/2025 19:00

They always do on these "I don't know much about or excuse my ignorance but could someone please explain [insert a controversial statement about Gaza or Israel]" type posts.

Basically they are always used to rile people up and shit stir. It was obvious from the start.

Agreed. They brought a weapons grade antisemite out of the woodwork (thankfully now deleted). Well done them!

Honesting · 28/09/2025 19:19

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 19:06

Agreed. They brought a weapons grade antisemite out of the woodwork (thankfully now deleted). Well done them!

Edited

If you meant me, I was being satirical. I was mocking the Jew hatred on this thread. It should have been pretty obvious with (a) the pun of 'free' Palestine, and (b) the use of the word Shylock.

SpiritAdder · 28/09/2025 19:25

mommyandmore · 26/09/2025 20:57

Please forgive my ignorance! Please can someone tell me the history of this? I have obviously seen and read what has unfolded over the past year but I’d really like someone to break down what’s happening. The things I’m seeing are horrific! Thanks and please no sarky comments, I’m really wanting to educate myself further about this.

Here OP is a list of 40 nonfiction books recommended to understand Palestine. Just reading 4 of these will give ya a grasp of the basics.
https://lithub.com/40-books-to-understand-palestine/

Palestine-flag

40 Books to Understand Palestine

In the last 38 days, more than 11,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli airstrikes in Gaza. Another 190 have been killed by Israeli army fire and settler violence in the West Bank. Tens of t…

https://lithub.com/40-books-to-understand-palestine

SpiritAdder · 28/09/2025 19:28

dropoutin · 26/09/2025 22:21

In the late 19th century a movement called Zionism arose encouraging jews from elsewhere in the world to emigrate to Palestine (then under the control of the Ottoman Empire and populated mostly by Arab muslims, with a small jewish minority) and create a jewish homeland.

In 1917 Britain issued the Balfour Declaration, which expressed support for the idea of a jewish homeland in Palestine, without dealing with how that would impact upon the indigenous population.

In the course of WWI the Ottoman Empire ceased to exist.

At the end of WWI Palestine, along with several other territories in the region, was made a "mandate" of Britain. This basically meant Britain was charged with overseeing its transition to nationhood - setting up the relevant political and judicial institutions etc.

During the interwar period Zionist migration increased. The British administrators favoured it in various ways, eg by changing laws and traditions of land ownership, exacerbating the growth of Zionism as a separatist movement. There was considerable violence between Zionist settlers and the indigenous population.

Britain considered how to deal with this violence and came up with the idea of partitioning Palestine into two countries, one jewish and one Arab muslim. The Zionists broadly supported this idea, while the Arabs (both Palestinians and surrounding Arab countries) rejected it.

At the end of WW2, the situation was exacerbated by thousands of refugees from the Nazi concentration camps arriving in Palestine. Britain couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution so said "bugger this, we've had enough", announced the mandate would be ending and left it for the UN to sort out.

The UN decided on a partition plan with a larger Israel, to account for prospective immigration over subsequent decades, and a smaller Palestine, even though at the time jews made up about a third of the population. Again this was accepted by Zionists but not by Arabs.

In 1948, in accordance with this plan, the state of Israel was declared. The Arab League immediately declared war upon it. Israel won that war and in the ensuing peace treaty the rest of Palestine was divided up - the West Bank between Israel and Transjordan, the Gaza strip to Egypt.

There was continual hostility, every so often erupting into war, between Israel and everyone else over the following decades. In 1967 after the six day war between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria, which Israel won, Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip, which it has controlled ever since.

Palestinians in those territories continued to rebel and refuse to accept the occupation. The UN also didn't accept it and repeatedly declared it illegal. Israel maintained that it was necessary as a security "buffer zone" against countries that sought its annihilation. As a general pattern, small and ineffective skirmishes by Palestinians would be met by overwhelming military force by Israel, killing vastly more.

In the 1980s and 1990s there were attempts to resolve the conflict and create a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but these were unsuccessful.

In 1988 Hamas was founded to fight for Palestinian statehood, with an explicit project to destroy Israel and create a single state over the whole of Palestine which would have an Arab muslim majority.

Israel continued to establish settlements in the occupied territories, treating the native Palestinians as second class citizens with few rights.

In 2005 Israel withdrew its settlements from Gaza (while maintaining and expanding them in the West Bank) and turned it over to self government, but maintained military and border control over it, restricting what could come in, who could go out etc.

In 2007 The Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas to government. Conflict erupted intermittently between Hamas and Israel, breaking into all out war in 2014.

In 2023, Hamas staged a raid into Israeli territory, killing about 1000 - 1500 people (depending on who you believe) and taking hundreds of hostages. Israel then went into all out war, obliterating Gaza, killing over 50,000 Palestinians (which it justifies by saying it is attempting to eradicate Hamas). The Palestinian civilians have been repeatedly ordered to evacuate from one area to another, had their livelihoods destroyed and are now suffering widespread starvation. Israel has been accused of delberate genocide in order to eventually take full control of the whole area.

No Nakba of 1947-1948?
Or Nukba of 1967?

mouthpipette · 28/09/2025 19:29

This reply has been deleted

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SpiritAdder · 28/09/2025 19:33

@PurpleThistle7
In WW2 they were murdered in the millions and those who escaped were turned away from America and the UK and almost anywhere they tried. Boatloads of desperate people with ‘one’ place to try.

Wiki lists the refugee reception statistics and it doesn’t corroborate the turned away and only one place to go (Palestine?)

See screenshot.

Free Palestine
SpiritAdder · 28/09/2025 19:56

@PollyPaintsFlowers
It explains why the most common surname in Gaza translates into English as 'the Egyptian' because in Arabic tribes they're named after where they come from

Do you similarly apply this logic to Jewish families with family names that have been anglecized or latinized or russianized?

Or the descendants of African slaves that bear the family names of their ancestors’ owner?

Or even aboriginal families with names like ‘Wyatt’, ‘Reid’ that are pure Anglo or even Scottish “McCarthy” due to invasion by the British?

Wait, didn’t Egypt invade and seize Gaza in 1948? And also did not allow Egyptians to enter Gaza to settle or Palestinians to leave Gaza to settle in Egypt?

When it comes to invasion and occupation (with or without colonisation), current family name is not enough to determine race never mind prove the historic origin of a family.

SharonEllis · 28/09/2025 19:57

Honesting · 28/09/2025 19:19

If you meant me, I was being satirical. I was mocking the Jew hatred on this thread. It should have been pretty obvious with (a) the pun of 'free' Palestine, and (b) the use of the word Shylock.

I did, sorry, still smarting from some of the appalling bias on this thread so no I didn't spot the satire. And any black humour we attempt on these threads is usually greeted with a big dose of sanctimoniousness.

SpiritAdder · 28/09/2025 20:00

itsnotveryfriendlyhereisit · 28/09/2025 16:49

Israel took control of the crossing during the war, and as of July 2025 it is managed by the Gaza Division of the IDF.

Yes since May 2024