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Conflict in the Middle East

App to boycott Israeli goods

1000 replies

Everexpanding · 14/09/2025 10:49

the “No Thanks” app, which first appeared almost two years ago carrying a large list of companies and brands consumers might consider boycotting because of Israeli links.
The app has become a key tool for the BDS movement that targets Israel economically for the actions of its government and its military in Gaza.
Along with a list of companies and brands to boycott, the app allows users to scan barcodes to find out more about the relationship particular products have with Israel.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
72
Gloriia · 23/09/2025 12:11

'No idea what other countries say but our Terrorism Act 2000 makes it an offence for a terrorist group to wear a uniform'

Well quite. A pp had corrected my hamas costume comment with a 'uniform' <what a weird thing to say>. Glad to know we agree that terrorists cannot wear a 'uniform'.

IWasScaredToBeHeld · 23/09/2025 12:13

SharonEllis · 23/09/2025 11:29

Amnesty International report on Qatar last year.

Partcularly interesting to note Qatar still not resolving issues round human rights abuses of migrant workers relating to when they hosted the World Cup. I expect they've been too busy looking after the Hamas leadership.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/qatar/report-qatar/

Edited

So because other nations are bad, Israel can be worse?

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 12:13

xenogear · 23/09/2025 11:24

Ah yes, that bastion of human rights. Qatar.

Yes some will only be satisfied when we have a Qatad lead government in the UK. Coming soon folks!

SharonEllis · 23/09/2025 12:13

IWasScaredToBeHeld · 23/09/2025 12:13

So because other nations are bad, Israel can be worse?

Who said that?

Everexpanding · 23/09/2025 12:15

interesting article to understand the mindset of those still denying the scale of the atrocities in Gaza, it also illustrates once again for those at the back, this didn’t all begin on Oct 7th

How is it possible to live with the knowledge that you have facilitated mass murder?

One term encapsulates the way Israel and its enablers are dealing with the genocide in Gaza: instant amnesia

One of the most remarkable films of the 21st century is Ari Folman’s 2008 animated documentary Waltz with Bashir. It is an Israeli movie; the dialogue is in Hebrew. And it’s about two things – genocide and amnesia.

It is an intimate exploration of a question that has become ever more haunting – how is it possible to live with the knowledge that you have engaged in or facilitated mass murder?
The film is autobiographical and almost all the characters are animated versions of named individuals who speak in their own voices. The use of graphics rather than live actors creates a kind of dazed hyperreality, at once dreamlike and vividly immediate.
And if you watch it today, this cognitive disturbance is even further heightened by the way an attempt to grapple with past horrors has become a nightmarish prelude to even greater atrocities. It’s a Gaza movie that doesn’t yet know itself to be one.

Folman was a 19 year-old conscript in the Israeli army that invaded Lebanon in 1982. But the premise of Waltz with Bashir is that he can’t remember what he saw there.
It is a detective story in which the sleuth is trying to figure out the nature of his own crime.

The crime is the massacre of Palestinianrefugees at the Sabra and Shatila camps on the outskirts of Beirut. The killing was done by Israeli-backed Christian paramilitaries. The camps were sealed off by the Israeli army which fired flares to help the killers continue the slaughter by night.

No one seems sure how many people were murdered, but the likely figure is somewhere around 2,000. Women and girls were raped before being killed, men castrated, babies had their throats cut.

Folman was present at the massacre. But he has wiped it completely from his mind. The things that happened in Lebanon are what the psychiatrist he consults in the movie calls “dissociative events”.
“It’s when a person experiences a situation and yet they perceive themselves as outside of it.”
Psychiatrists diagnose one aspect of this mental condition as what they call “derealisation” – “feeling” as the Mayo Clinic puts it, “that other people and things are separate from you and seem foggy or dreamlike ... The world may seem unreal.”

The term encapsulates the way Israel and its enablers are dealing with the genocide in Gaza: instant amnesia.

There is an extraordinary moment at the end of Waltz with Bashir, when Folman has finally forced himself to remember Sabra and Shatila. Animated images of wailing women in burkas coming towards him dissolve into actual news film of the same scene. There are no more cartoons – these are real women overwhelmed by unspeakable horror.
And then there is footage of the dead bodies piled in the courtyards and alleyways. The film ends on a momentary but terrible glimpse of a dead child’s face peering out from a pile of corpses.

This is, if the awkward word can be forgiven, an act of “re-realisation”. It takes the butchery out of the foggy, dreamy terrain of cognitive dissociation and hurls it back into the stark realm of naked actuality.

Folman’s film dares to use the g-word. One of his witnesses, commenting on the way senior Israeli officers and members of government were seeing the massacre in real time asks how come “no one realised they were witnessing genocide?”.

Even more remarkably, the Israeli journalist Ron Ben-Yishai describes his first approach to the camps on the morning after the massacre: “You know the picture from the ghetto in Warsaw? The one with the kid holding his hands up in the air? This looked the same.”
Anyone with the slightest sense of history can understand how painful it must be for a Jewish person to use the word “genocide” in a context where Israel is on the side of the perpetrators rather than the victims. Anyone can imagine how shattering it must be for a Jewish person to see the Warsaw ghetto in the face of a Palestinian child whose family has just been massacred under the eyes of the Israeli army.

It took a quarter of a century for the events of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon to be processed into a film like Waltz with Bashir. At the time it came out, though, it did seem like a moment of hope – not because it said anything much about Palestinians but because it said a lot about Israelis. It seemed to speak of a society willing to struggle against amnesia.

Yet as I watched it again now, an acronym from an entirely different script came into my mind – NRPI. In Succession, it’s the code Logan Roy’s company uses for women and migrant workers who suffer injuries or abuse on its cruise liners – No Real Person Involved. NRPI is rubber-stamped all over Gaza now.
The procedure Folman undergoes in the movie is now reversed on a massive scale. Derealisation is, for Israel and its supporters, total and absolute. There are no real people involved.

Folman’s film is being run backwards – from the news images that those of us in Ireland see every night to cartoons of subhuman terrorist-loving kids. And anyone who uses the g-word, let alone anyone who has flashbacks to images of the Warsaw ghetto, is a Hamas-loving anti-Semite.

In 2050, there will be a great Israeli film exploring the psychological cost of dissociative amnesia for the 19 year-old conscripts who are in Gaza today.

There will be middle-aged men and women wondering why 2024 and 2025 are blanked out of their memories and perhaps embarking on journeys back to the traumatic scenes they coped with by turning them into foggy and dreamlike figments. They will ask themselves how “no one realised they were witnessing genocide”.
Sounds and sights will resurface as they do at the end of Folman’s film – ghastly, unbearable screams, concrete smeared with blood and body parts, the face of a dead child.

The people will become real at last – but by then of course they will all be dead

OP posts:
DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 13:03

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 12:11

'No idea what other countries say but our Terrorism Act 2000 makes it an offence for a terrorist group to wear a uniform'

Well quite. A pp had corrected my hamas costume comment with a 'uniform' <what a weird thing to say>. Glad to know we agree that terrorists cannot wear a 'uniform'.

Agree
although you did suggest they should all wear their ‘fetching green costumes’
If they all dressed the same in ‘fetching green costumes’ all the time it could be construed they had created their own uniform

They can’t do this

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 13:08

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 12:13

Yes some will only be satisfied when we have a Qatad lead government in the UK. Coming soon folks!

🙄

Is this a serious comment?

UltraCynica · 23/09/2025 13:30

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 13:08

🙄

Is this a serious comment?

That poster has a seriously vivid imagination 😂

GladioliGreen · 23/09/2025 13:42

itsnotveryfriendlyhereisit · 23/09/2025 11:21

Looks like Israel might also be kicked out of the World Cup too. Massive pressure from Qatar.

Fingers crossed. Football is the most popular sport in Israel so it will make a big impact. It's about time football woke up.

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 13:59

DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 13:03

Agree
although you did suggest they should all wear their ‘fetching green costumes’
If they all dressed the same in ‘fetching green costumes’ all the time it could be construed they had created their own uniform

They can’t do this

'They can't do this'. Except when they have a hostage parade party then they can and do.

Not so brave the rest of the time preferring to mingle with civilians for a bit of protection.

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 14:01

'how is it possible to live with the knowledge that you have engaged in or facilitated mass murder?'

I don't think hamas care, you'll be waiting a long time before they show any regret or conscience.

KoalaKoKo · 23/09/2025 14:23

Everexpanding · 23/09/2025 12:15

interesting article to understand the mindset of those still denying the scale of the atrocities in Gaza, it also illustrates once again for those at the back, this didn’t all begin on Oct 7th

How is it possible to live with the knowledge that you have facilitated mass murder?

One term encapsulates the way Israel and its enablers are dealing with the genocide in Gaza: instant amnesia

One of the most remarkable films of the 21st century is Ari Folman’s 2008 animated documentary Waltz with Bashir. It is an Israeli movie; the dialogue is in Hebrew. And it’s about two things – genocide and amnesia.

It is an intimate exploration of a question that has become ever more haunting – how is it possible to live with the knowledge that you have engaged in or facilitated mass murder?
The film is autobiographical and almost all the characters are animated versions of named individuals who speak in their own voices. The use of graphics rather than live actors creates a kind of dazed hyperreality, at once dreamlike and vividly immediate.
And if you watch it today, this cognitive disturbance is even further heightened by the way an attempt to grapple with past horrors has become a nightmarish prelude to even greater atrocities. It’s a Gaza movie that doesn’t yet know itself to be one.

Folman was a 19 year-old conscript in the Israeli army that invaded Lebanon in 1982. But the premise of Waltz with Bashir is that he can’t remember what he saw there.
It is a detective story in which the sleuth is trying to figure out the nature of his own crime.

The crime is the massacre of Palestinianrefugees at the Sabra and Shatila camps on the outskirts of Beirut. The killing was done by Israeli-backed Christian paramilitaries. The camps were sealed off by the Israeli army which fired flares to help the killers continue the slaughter by night.

No one seems sure how many people were murdered, but the likely figure is somewhere around 2,000. Women and girls were raped before being killed, men castrated, babies had their throats cut.

Folman was present at the massacre. But he has wiped it completely from his mind. The things that happened in Lebanon are what the psychiatrist he consults in the movie calls “dissociative events”.
“It’s when a person experiences a situation and yet they perceive themselves as outside of it.”
Psychiatrists diagnose one aspect of this mental condition as what they call “derealisation” – “feeling” as the Mayo Clinic puts it, “that other people and things are separate from you and seem foggy or dreamlike ... The world may seem unreal.”

The term encapsulates the way Israel and its enablers are dealing with the genocide in Gaza: instant amnesia.

There is an extraordinary moment at the end of Waltz with Bashir, when Folman has finally forced himself to remember Sabra and Shatila. Animated images of wailing women in burkas coming towards him dissolve into actual news film of the same scene. There are no more cartoons – these are real women overwhelmed by unspeakable horror.
And then there is footage of the dead bodies piled in the courtyards and alleyways. The film ends on a momentary but terrible glimpse of a dead child’s face peering out from a pile of corpses.

This is, if the awkward word can be forgiven, an act of “re-realisation”. It takes the butchery out of the foggy, dreamy terrain of cognitive dissociation and hurls it back into the stark realm of naked actuality.

Folman’s film dares to use the g-word. One of his witnesses, commenting on the way senior Israeli officers and members of government were seeing the massacre in real time asks how come “no one realised they were witnessing genocide?”.

Even more remarkably, the Israeli journalist Ron Ben-Yishai describes his first approach to the camps on the morning after the massacre: “You know the picture from the ghetto in Warsaw? The one with the kid holding his hands up in the air? This looked the same.”
Anyone with the slightest sense of history can understand how painful it must be for a Jewish person to use the word “genocide” in a context where Israel is on the side of the perpetrators rather than the victims. Anyone can imagine how shattering it must be for a Jewish person to see the Warsaw ghetto in the face of a Palestinian child whose family has just been massacred under the eyes of the Israeli army.

It took a quarter of a century for the events of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon to be processed into a film like Waltz with Bashir. At the time it came out, though, it did seem like a moment of hope – not because it said anything much about Palestinians but because it said a lot about Israelis. It seemed to speak of a society willing to struggle against amnesia.

Yet as I watched it again now, an acronym from an entirely different script came into my mind – NRPI. In Succession, it’s the code Logan Roy’s company uses for women and migrant workers who suffer injuries or abuse on its cruise liners – No Real Person Involved. NRPI is rubber-stamped all over Gaza now.
The procedure Folman undergoes in the movie is now reversed on a massive scale. Derealisation is, for Israel and its supporters, total and absolute. There are no real people involved.

Folman’s film is being run backwards – from the news images that those of us in Ireland see every night to cartoons of subhuman terrorist-loving kids. And anyone who uses the g-word, let alone anyone who has flashbacks to images of the Warsaw ghetto, is a Hamas-loving anti-Semite.

In 2050, there will be a great Israeli film exploring the psychological cost of dissociative amnesia for the 19 year-old conscripts who are in Gaza today.

There will be middle-aged men and women wondering why 2024 and 2025 are blanked out of their memories and perhaps embarking on journeys back to the traumatic scenes they coped with by turning them into foggy and dreamlike figments. They will ask themselves how “no one realised they were witnessing genocide”.
Sounds and sights will resurface as they do at the end of Folman’s film – ghastly, unbearable screams, concrete smeared with blood and body parts, the face of a dead child.

The people will become real at last – but by then of course they will all be dead

This is quite interesting - especially what you say about the amnesia and disassociation. I am definitely going to check it out, you are an incredibly good writer btw!

There was a documentary called Tantura (on Amazon Prime) which is comprised with interviews with ex Israeli soldiers, Palestinian villagers and Israeli settlers. It was a massacre where hundred were slaughtered and buried in a mass grave, barbaric acts like rape and genital dismemberment also took place. The documentary has two type of interviews over different times - the first were audio interviews by a phd student where he spoke to people involved in the massacre then decades later some if the soldiers are reinterviewed on camera by the documentary maker.

The thing that strikes me though is that when interviewed many of the soldiers in the first audio interviews said they took the village by force, rounded up the villagers and later went for a swim. When asked what happened to the villagers some said they didn’t remember and some said they didn’t want to talk about it. Decades later they were interviewed again and this time they said “we killed them”, some said they witnessed it and some said they took part in lining them up and firing - they all recalled a man who raped a girl throwing a grenande into a room full of locked up villagers and people being chased and incinerated with flame throwers. Those that had said they didn’t remember in their first interview but admitted to war crimes in the second interview were asked about why they had skipped that part and for some it was that they had suppressed the memories and for others they did not want to think about it - with some being told not to talk about it. They mentioned that they had done it in other villages too - who knows how many mass graves are under beach resort car parks in Israel.

The striking thing about this is the men who committed the genocide in 1948 had just survived a genocide and been subjected to horrifically cruel treatment themselves. When children are subjected to extreme trauma it can affect the developing brain particularly with impulse control, recognising right and wrong and empathy.

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 14:37

Spain has declared a total arms embargo against Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/spain-approves-total-arms-embargo-in-israel/

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 14:37

The decree prohibits all exports to Israel of defense material and dual-use products or technologies, and the import of such equipment to Spain, Economy Minister Carlos Cuerpo says at a news conference.
It also blocks requests for the transit of aircraft fuel with potential military applications and bans imports of products originating from Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including their advertising, Cuerpo says.

DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 14:51

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 13:59

'They can't do this'. Except when they have a hostage parade party then they can and do.

Not so brave the rest of the time preferring to mingle with civilians for a bit of protection.

Hostage release is completely different as you well know

Why are you constantly pushing this.

They can’t have a uniform.
Israel's IDF must wear a uniform. Any comments about Israel’s war crime on this front. As my news piece upthread
I notice you’ve completely ignored it

DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 14:53

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 14:37

Well done them
Now we and all other countries need to follow suit

UltraCynica · 23/09/2025 15:36

Kakeandkake · 23/09/2025 14:37

Amazing.

UltraCynica · 23/09/2025 15:39

This reply has been deleted

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Everexpanding · 23/09/2025 15:42

KoalaKoKo · 23/09/2025 14:23

This is quite interesting - especially what you say about the amnesia and disassociation. I am definitely going to check it out, you are an incredibly good writer btw!

There was a documentary called Tantura (on Amazon Prime) which is comprised with interviews with ex Israeli soldiers, Palestinian villagers and Israeli settlers. It was a massacre where hundred were slaughtered and buried in a mass grave, barbaric acts like rape and genital dismemberment also took place. The documentary has two type of interviews over different times - the first were audio interviews by a phd student where he spoke to people involved in the massacre then decades later some if the soldiers are reinterviewed on camera by the documentary maker.

The thing that strikes me though is that when interviewed many of the soldiers in the first audio interviews said they took the village by force, rounded up the villagers and later went for a swim. When asked what happened to the villagers some said they didn’t remember and some said they didn’t want to talk about it. Decades later they were interviewed again and this time they said “we killed them”, some said they witnessed it and some said they took part in lining them up and firing - they all recalled a man who raped a girl throwing a grenande into a room full of locked up villagers and people being chased and incinerated with flame throwers. Those that had said they didn’t remember in their first interview but admitted to war crimes in the second interview were asked about why they had skipped that part and for some it was that they had suppressed the memories and for others they did not want to think about it - with some being told not to talk about it. They mentioned that they had done it in other villages too - who knows how many mass graves are under beach resort car parks in Israel.

The striking thing about this is the men who committed the genocide in 1948 had just survived a genocide and been subjected to horrifically cruel treatment themselves. When children are subjected to extreme trauma it can affect the developing brain particularly with impulse control, recognising right and wrong and empathy.

That’s from an article published today @KoalaKoKo not my writing, wish it was I’m not that good, it’s behind a paywall that’s why I copied and pasted

OP posts:
Everexpanding · 23/09/2025 15:46

@KoalaKoKo your post is very interesting I have not watched Tantura yet, but will, seems similar theme, and yes maybe it is only through disassociation people can commit genocide, denial of other’s humanity obviously plays a huge role too, and you can see that on here sometimes

OP posts:
Gloriia · 23/09/2025 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What an unpleasant way to talk about someone.

Yes I imagine it is inconvenient when I keep reminding you who is to blame here, hamas.

Sadly there will alway be deaths in a conflict. Hamas <sorry to bring those pesky terrorists up again> need to release the hostages lay down their weapons and give gaza a chance of peace.

Maybe Macron et al could appeal to them directly when they're next on the telly?

Martymcfly24 · 23/09/2025 16:14

Gloriia · 23/09/2025 12:11

'No idea what other countries say but our Terrorism Act 2000 makes it an offence for a terrorist group to wear a uniform'

Well quite. A pp had corrected my hamas costume comment with a 'uniform' <what a weird thing to say>. Glad to know we agree that terrorists cannot wear a 'uniform'.

Apologies @Gloriia I read your comment too quickly and thought you used the word uniform there is nothing deeper than that.
. I obviously was very poor in my clarity of the point I was trying to make that I doubt there will be much of a uniform/costume /body left once the IDF bombs have obliterated them.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/09/2025 16:29

Everexpanding · 23/09/2025 15:42

That’s from an article published today @KoalaKoKo not my writing, wish it was I’m not that good, it’s behind a paywall that’s why I copied and pasted

This is an excerpt from a longer Haaretz article from today. It shows some soldiers are affected even in the present by what they are doing and seeing and may never get over it.

'I Saw the Bodies of Children': Moral Injury and Mental Strain Breaking IDF Soldiers

Long stints in Gaza's combat zones is leaving many mentally exhausted. Others can no longer take the arbitrary killing. Sources estimate thousands of conscript soldiers have already left the front lines with no intention of going back, with the numbers constantly rising

But on that day in Beit Lahia, something happened, says Yoni (a psyeudonym, as are the names of other interviewees). "Terrorists, terrorists," one soldier shouted. "We go into a frenzy, and I get on the Negev [a machinegun] right away and start spraying, firing hundreds of bullets. We then charged forward, and I realized it was a mistake."

There were no terrorists there. "I saw the bodies of two children, maybe 8 or 10 years old, I have no idea," recalls Yoni. "There was blood everywhere, lots of signs of gunfire, I knew it was all on me, that I did this. I wanted to throw up. After a few minutes, the company commander arrived and said coldly, as if he wasn't a human being, 'They entered an extermination zone, it is their fault, this is what war is like.'"

^This was late last May, but the scene has not faded, nor has what happened afterward. Yoni told his commanders he wanted to see a mental health officer, but didn't reveal why. "I told him everything, and he explained that there's a concept called 'moral injury.' He said it's a state where you act against your own values, and you're then caught in a kind of dissonance between the values you believe in and your behavior." At the end of the meeting, the officer recommended that Yoni not return to combat, and he was transferred to a support role. "I suffer from flashbacks to that event," he shares. "Their faces come back to me, and I don't know if I'll ever get over it.”

UltraCynica · 23/09/2025 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DrPrunesqualer · 23/09/2025 16:52

ScrollingLeaves · 23/09/2025 16:29

This is an excerpt from a longer Haaretz article from today. It shows some soldiers are affected even in the present by what they are doing and seeing and may never get over it.

'I Saw the Bodies of Children': Moral Injury and Mental Strain Breaking IDF Soldiers

Long stints in Gaza's combat zones is leaving many mentally exhausted. Others can no longer take the arbitrary killing. Sources estimate thousands of conscript soldiers have already left the front lines with no intention of going back, with the numbers constantly rising

But on that day in Beit Lahia, something happened, says Yoni (a psyeudonym, as are the names of other interviewees). "Terrorists, terrorists," one soldier shouted. "We go into a frenzy, and I get on the Negev [a machinegun] right away and start spraying, firing hundreds of bullets. We then charged forward, and I realized it was a mistake."

There were no terrorists there. "I saw the bodies of two children, maybe 8 or 10 years old, I have no idea," recalls Yoni. "There was blood everywhere, lots of signs of gunfire, I knew it was all on me, that I did this. I wanted to throw up. After a few minutes, the company commander arrived and said coldly, as if he wasn't a human being, 'They entered an extermination zone, it is their fault, this is what war is like.'"

^This was late last May, but the scene has not faded, nor has what happened afterward. Yoni told his commanders he wanted to see a mental health officer, but didn't reveal why. "I told him everything, and he explained that there's a concept called 'moral injury.' He said it's a state where you act against your own values, and you're then caught in a kind of dissonance between the values you believe in and your behavior." At the end of the meeting, the officer recommended that Yoni not return to combat, and he was transferred to a support role. "I suffer from flashbacks to that event," he shares. "Their faces come back to me, and I don't know if I'll ever get over it.”

What happened to the guy who shouted terrorists. ?

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