More dead terrorists - nowhere to hide

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c78m71vl91vt

Does anyone know why Hamas leadership are in Qatar? I’ll give you a clue, America were involved and asked Qatar to. This ain’t some axis of evil argument - it’s actually quite interesting looking at all the negotiations Qatar has been involved in. They have quite a reputation. I’m afraid it doesn’t just involve terrorists either - that might disappoint some people who had decided on a certain narrative.

Like others have said, the implications of this are horrendous. Anyone can bomb anywhere if they can claim there’s an enemy there - imagine if that starts happening in the UK. How much collateral damage should we be happy with because another leader believes there’s some sort of imminent threat. Then, there’s the poor hostages who have had their chances of a ceasefire release taken. There’s the US air base in Qatar - what happens to the people based there right now if Trump says he knew all about this? This is a dangerous moment for the region and for global politics more broadly.

You're wrong. The Israeli government and it's puppet army are proof of that.

@Dangermoos parents of hostages aren't happy about this attack. What are your thoughts on that?

I also think your last statement needs amending - the sooner politicians of all stripes begin to care for all people in a genuine and helpful manner, the sooner the killing will stop. A pretty huge issue in this conflict is each side dehumanising the other. It’s not just about protecting your own - really, that’s how this all started and it’s how it will all continue.

I'm not in their position, thank goodness, so it's not for me to say. I would have thought their hearts and minds have been through so many different phases, that they are numb.

@pinkbobby you really do underestimate the power and unity of the Muslim Brotherhood.

In what way?

Qatar are always going to be for their fellow countrymen, unless they are Palestinian. They can tell the western leaders what they want to hear. In fact its not actually their countrymen they look after but an ideology.

They do.

Do they really apply to both Hamas and Israel?
That hideous day in October was a Hamas attack and was against international law. Israel responded against the attack which is not against international law..
Nothing since is as clear cut, I suppose.

Posted in another thread but seems equally relevant here. The Times of Israel are reporting today that Israel are "increasingly optimistic" about the results of the strike.

Despite claiming that Israel had failed in the operation, Hamas offered no immediate proof that its top leaders had survived. The terror group has been known in the past to only confirm the death of its leaders weeks or months after the fact.

Most of Hamas’s leadership in Gaza has been killed during the past two years of war with Israel, but until now, its political leadership abroad has been mostly untouched. Notable exceptions were former politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh, who was assassinated on a visit to Iran, and his former deputy Saleh al-Arouri, who was killed in Beirut, both in 2024.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-strikes-hamas-chiefs-in-qatar-terror-group-insists-senior-leaders-unharmed/

The Netflix documentary American Manhunt: Osama Bin Laden is interesting to watch for how President Obama and his security staff went after their enemy in hiding with no shits given re Pakistani sovereignty or anything else.

Don't remember mass protests about that at the time? Nearly everyone in the West considered it a cause for celebration to rid the world of this evil extremist.

Of course people are outraged when Israel do a similar thing re Hamas leaders in Doha.

It makes more sense (to me) to attack the leadership of Hamas rather than ordinary people. They are the ones making the decisions, commanding the theft of aid so the people suffer further. I think they are happy to let people starve/ die to further the cause.

I do wonder about retaliation from Qatar. Will what’s left of Hamas’ top echelons stay of regroup somewhere else?

I don’t think Osama Bin Laden was there for ceasefire talks

This. Who knew Bin Laden had to be in a cave in Afghanistan before the US were allowed to kill him.

Who gives a shit where these terrorists hide.

Good on Israel for finding them and wiping them out.

Hamas leaders have been preventing peace not working towards it since forever. There will be someone left on the Hamas side who can agree a ceasefire and the only language they seem to understand is self interest. So they will be more likely to agree a deal if they feel they need the US to guarantee their personal safety.

And you think that anyone will trust Israel and the US? Asking people to ceasefire talks and then blowing them up doesn't tend to foster trust. I saw Trump talking last week I think it was and he said something along the lines of release the hostages then we will kill you and it will all be over and I just thought what kind of idiots are running this show? Then there are the open plans to turn Gaza into some kind of rich persons playground, the talk of annexing four fifths of the West Bank. these are plans for the end of Palestine forever.

If you can with a straight face say that Israel and the US have been working towards peace you are a better liar than I am.

I think Hamas leaders will be getting the message now that they aren’t safe wherever they live & no amount of money can change that. American security in exchange for surrender is probably the best option they have of staying alive.

I wouldn’t bet money on it though.

I think the message that has been sent out for a long time is that Trump isn't a man of his word. A promise of 'security' means nothing when the person making the promise is openly untrustworthy. They want peace no more than Hamas want peace and they aren't shy about showing it.

To me, the difference is that OBL was in a compound in the middle of nowhere. They went in covertly and killed him with guns. Did Pakistan know he was there: obviously. They were allowing him to hide out and were in no ways allies. There were also no hostages relying on some sort of ceasefire to survive.

On the other hand, Israel bombed a building in a capital city of Qatar - again, how much concern can you have more civilian casualties with that approach? Yes, Hamas were there and are terrorists but they had been invited there by the US and Qatar asked to help mediate negotiations. They, in essence, double crossed Qatar who now have to work out what to do about this attack and any potential civilians killed. The US have to decide whether to potentially lose their relationship with Qatar (worth billions) and admit they lured Hamas there to kill them OR say they don’t support bombing negotiation talks. The hostages have no probably lost any chance of a ceasefire release. And the worst thing - terrorists just replace each other. Even if all of those people are wiped out, there’ll be someone else to fill in.

So I don’t think the comparisons are fair here. This is a provocative move in a deeply unstable region. I’m not saying Qatar were some neutral party overall but they were working to a certain degree with the US and Israel. The region will not respond well to a bombing in a capital city regardless of the reason. As I’ve said, if London were hosting negotiation talks, would you be okay with us being bombed? This sets another terrible precedent and I fear for what come next for so many people - first and foremost the hostages, then the region’s already precarious stability and finally anyone who hosts negotiation talks/‘enemies’ in a war.

I understand you think this is Israel bashing but surely you can see that this is a much more inflammatory move than what the US in Pakistan?

I disagree the differences are that wide.

Osama Bin Laden was in a compound yes, but he was living with wives, children, other family members and staff. There were many people killed in the compound that day including children, not just him.

The Israel attack in Doha was targeted & “only” killed 6 people. Even Hamas admit that 5 were Hamas members, they just aren’t admitting currently that any of the people killed were Hamas leaders. Then again they have only admitted recently that Simwar is dead and the IDF killed him months ago.

And if you watch the documentary it explains that Pakistan would definitely have viewed the US using their airspace without permission as a hostile move and shot them down if the US hadn’t taken steps to fly in undetected. It was a risky operation that could easily have killed the US operatives involved.

They couldn’t ask permission as didn’t trust Pakistan not to tip off Bin Laden.

How many civilians were killed? None I believe. So this attack was as precise as Bin Laden's.

This is a good thing you know, showing terrorists even hiding in rich Qatar isn't safe.

The question is why does Qatar harbour terrorists.

Sorry - I wasn’t suggesting the US was working with Pakistan or that it wasn’t an extremely risky operation. My point is that no relationships were threatened by that move (apart from Pakistan being annoyed but they already hated the US). On the other hand, Israel has escalated the conflict by involving Qatar (which then brings in other ME countries) and involving Trump which means the US now needs to figure out where it stands (including with Qatar where they have a huge air base and export contract worth billions. It is a move that destabilises the region further.

Re the damage done, my point is that bombing is destructive. Look at the image - how targeted is that explosion? How could they control who was outside at the time or inside in the different rooms. They made a choice to use significant force to take these people out (allegedly) and were happy to risk innocent lives AND their relationship with other ME countries.

It seems you see this as the price that needs to be paid for destroying Hamas but I do not. I’m not saying that those members of Hamas weren’t worth targeting, but bombing another country’s capital is only an escalation of this war and I fear it’ll cause a ripple effect that ultimately means more pain for Israeli people.

One civilian was killed ‘luckily’. But that’s more than enough for Qatar to rightly kick up a fuss and ignite more anger in the region. You can’t just bomb the capital of another country and not accept that it’s an escalation.

Qatar ‘harbours’ terrorists because the Americans asked them to. They thought it would help negotiations/lasting peace being set up. Obviously not how things turned out but if you want to blame
Qatar, blame America too for assisting inhabiting terrorists in Qatar. And Israel - BN agreed in 2018 to allow Qatar to give money to Gaza.