Page 10 | Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world’s top scholars on the crime say

Everexpanding · 2025-09-01T16:15:28+00:00

An overwhelming majority of members of the world’s leading genocide scholars’ association have backed a resolution stating that Israel’s actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of the crime. Eighty-six per cent of those who voted in the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) supported the motion. The resolution states that “Israel’s policies and actions in [[https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza Gaza]] meet the legal definition of genocide in article II of the United Nations convention for the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide (1948).” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say

hkathy · 04/09/2025 10:40

I am genuinely interested in your opinions:@Lolapusht@CaramelPecanand similar others.

For me and my Jewish side of family, as well as a lot of our friends and community, the turning point was watching videos such as Hind Rajab. It was a basic sense of human decency to have empathy for this tiny child, and not ‘whatabout’ it or twist yourself to excuse it, or dismiss it as fake news. There comes a point where being on the right side of history is more important than anything else.

Of course it’s important for us to have a Jewish state but not like this. I just don’t think I can be the same again, as a mother, after listening to the voice of a tiny child being killed by grown men hiding in a tank. And I’m afraid to say that if you can watch that video and listen to that child and still excuse it then you too are on the wrong side of history.

dairydebris · 04/09/2025 12:19

hkathy · 04/09/2025 10:40

I am genuinely interested in your opinions:@Lolapusht@CaramelPecanand similar others.

For me and my Jewish side of family, as well as a lot of our friends and community, the turning point was watching videos such as Hind Rajab. It was a basic sense of human decency to have empathy for this tiny child, and not ‘whatabout’ it or twist yourself to excuse it, or dismiss it as fake news. There comes a point where being on the right side of history is more important than anything else.

Of course it’s important for us to have a Jewish state but not like this. I just don’t think I can be the same again, as a mother, after listening to the voice of a tiny child being killed by grown men hiding in a tank. And I’m afraid to say that if you can watch that video and listen to that child and still excuse it then you too are on the wrong side of history.

Who here has excused the death of Hind Rajab?

What do you mean on the 'wrong side of history'?

CaramelPecan · 04/09/2025 12:36

hkathy · 04/09/2025 10:40

I am genuinely interested in your opinions:@Lolapusht@CaramelPecanand similar others.

For me and my Jewish side of family, as well as a lot of our friends and community, the turning point was watching videos such as Hind Rajab. It was a basic sense of human decency to have empathy for this tiny child, and not ‘whatabout’ it or twist yourself to excuse it, or dismiss it as fake news. There comes a point where being on the right side of history is more important than anything else.

Of course it’s important for us to have a Jewish state but not like this. I just don’t think I can be the same again, as a mother, after listening to the voice of a tiny child being killed by grown men hiding in a tank. And I’m afraid to say that if you can watch that video and listen to that child and still excuse it then you too are on the wrong side of history.

I don’t believe the IDF killed Hind at all. It is a disgusting blood libel. It defies all logic and reason. 355 bullets used on one target by a professional military? This supposed crime of theirs would come to light and they would be publicly condemned. Doesn’t make sense.

You might believe it if as usual, you come from a starting point of believing that the IDF is an evil, blood thirsty entity made up of monsters which I recall seeing them described as on here on many occasions.

I believe they are a regular Army made up of regular humans.

Hamas needed a face to convey Israel’s evilness in this war. Someone whose death would cause maximum outrage. A highly emotive personal story with a name.

I believe one of two scenarios took place. Hind’s family was attacked while trying to evacuate by Hamas or the PIJ who both have a history of attacking Palestinians to prevent them evacuating. Hind either died from wounds from that attack or they came back and killed her.

Or the incident was staged and didn’t happen. There was a video investigation I came across ages ago showing no blood in the car at all.

Both of those scenarios are more believable to me than the IDF firing 355 rounds into a car they would have clearly seen carried a family.

There is more than enough in this thread to create reasonable doubt.

https://x.com/AdinHaykin1/status/1892930364479357157

Let’s face it Forensic Architecture’s aim seems to be to ensure Israel is blamed and they did not have access to the scene.

It’s the same as the ridiculous blood libel that the IDF forced every single member of hospital staff to leave a hospital so they could deliberately leave premature babies in incubators to die, who were then very conveniently ‘found’ by a journalist weeks later.

For Hamas, propaganda is the only weapon they have to win this war. People seem to forget that.

If you are a Jewish person, I’m surprised that the anti Israel bias (which is basically anti-semitism) a lot of these organisations blatantly show, is not more of a concern to you.

https://x.com/AdinHaykin1/status/1892930364479357157

dairydebris · 04/09/2025 12:41

PinkBobby · 04/09/2025 09:13

But the land was theirs in the sense that people lived and worked on that land. Their whole lives were on that land. And then they were told they couldn’t live there anymore because someone else had bought it. There was significant investment into that land and suddenly the new arrivals were thriving whilst the people who had lived there for years faced extreme poverty. Again, I’m not saying anything illegal was going on necessarily (I don’t know what happened in every case at this time). But the people on that land were there, living, working and then that was all gone. That’s going to cause anger and resentment and in that context, the poor didn’t have agency over what happened and I’m sure that added to the anger they felt.

Similarly, they didn’t have agency when the B Agreement went back on the Brits promise for Palestine to be for the Arabs that lived there already (as nationalism took hold in that area). Suddenly, it wasn’t and that would create resentment as people felt their culture and traditions were threatened by a large number of immigrants who suddenly were being promised the same land for a totally different state.

Again, I’m not saying the Jewish immigrants did anything wrong by moving to the area the Brits had ‘given’ them, or investing in that land or wanting a safe place to live. But the reason agency isn’t relevant to a lot of people in that area at the time is being they were controlled by the Ottoman Empire/brits and the nationalism that grew as they began to identify as Palestinians (rather than just Arabs) was in direct conflict with the plans the Brits and Zionists had at that time. Not all of this is saying one side was right or wrong or placing blame on one side of another but it is important to understand where all this hatred comes from.

If you read about the revolts, for example, you see that all sides committed horrendous acts - Arabs killed Jewish people, Brits used Arabs as human shields and then ran them over when they were finished, the Zionist ‘special night squad’ tortured Arabs. No one comes out looking particularly great and decades later we are still seeing that same hatred for the other bubbling away.

I think Palestinians should be in Gaza and the WB and it should be left to them (with support, investment and guidance from suitable countries) to find a way forward. Obviously with the caveat that extremism would need to be carefully dealt with/monitored. Re reparations, I think that would be suitable but I don’t think we then have to look back at other incidents unless we want to look at all historical injustices across alll countries. But I’m not sure there’s enough money in the world to make up for the past!

I understand your comments re agency and I do think there’s a danger in slipping into the victim narrative about everything that’s happened and remove accountability which isn’t right. But it is also important to note that there are key moments in history when the Arabs/palestinians didn’t have agency and that contributed to this awful situation.

I think we agree on a few things but just look at it with different starting points. I think that Palestinian people for nearly two decades have lived at the mercy of a terrorist government and that has also meant oppression from Israel. They have lacked autonomy because of this.

How much autonomy would you feel you had if you need a permit to build on your own land
or if you can’t speak out against your government for fear of being killed
or if your local hospital only has power for part of the day
or if your home is violently taken by settlers whilst the police/army watch
or if Hamas use your home or office for terrorist activity
or if you can’t access your own farmland without permission
This doesn’t then mean they lack autonomy when they resort to violence. But it does help explain why violence was tempting. And if we focus on that, maybe we can stop it at least minimise more violence. That would then mean fewer Palestinian and Israeli casualties.

Show quote history

To your first paragraph, do you mean Arab tenant farmers forced off the land after it was bought by Jews? If so, blame the landlords, not the buyers. And if they were facing poverty, how was that the new immigrants fault? Surely again it makes more sense to blame their own leadership? Or do you mean those forced off the land as a consequence of the war? Again, blame the Palestinian and other Arab leadership who started that war instead of accepting the land offered for a Palestinian state, and getting on with building that state. Again, I dont see why Israel gets the lions share of blame here. Palestinian leadership does.

I think I do see where the hatred comes from. Everyone else got a state. Jordan. Israel. KSA. Iraq. Iran. Lebanon. Syria. Just, not the Palestinians. But, Palestinians could have had their state. With some Jews in it- but their own state. They didn't chose that. They chose a war. They could have even declared the State then gone to war, but they didn't, because they didn't want any Jewish state at all in the former Palestinian mandate. I DO see why this would cause anger and resentment- but that should be aimed at their own leadership ( and other Arab states for attempting land grab ).

To all the points raised in your final paragraph- yes of course I'd feel I had insufficient autonomy in these instances. But I'd blame my government, for keeping on committing terrorist offenses that bring us a nation to this place.

And Israel. I think Israel is staring into the abyss, and the abyss is staring back.

Theres now so much hatred and extremists on both sides that its entirely self perpetuating. And we come back to both sides needing moderate leadership for a genuine peace process to start.

Honestly I wish we could turn back time to 1948 and have Palestinian leadership accept boundaries. I know a peaceful transfer of populations vv. would have been too much to ask. But this perpetual Palestinian victimhood does neither side any favors. And now it might be too late ( Trump BN etc, but I hope it wont come to that ).

Beachtastic · 04/09/2025 13:22

The word "children" crops up a lot on these threads and Hamas, who specialise in psychological warfare, know exactly what buttons to press by flooding X/Insta accounts with photos of suffering infants. It's perhaps not surprising that Mumsnet amplifies Hamas's narrative of victimhood, since such images are bound to elicit a visceral "Just make it STOP!" reaction.

So many posts on CITME portray Gaza as the child and Israel as the adult, as though what happened on 7/10 was the natural response of an abused child that just needs placing under more tender care, and as though only the "adult" (Israel) can be expected to behave responsibly.

Questions about what could possibly have made Gazans "so angry" completely overlook a society in which Hamas adherents are rewarded, there are strong incentives (both financial and heavenly) to kill Jews, and a death-cult ideology into which everyone is indoctrinated from a young age, where Jew-killing (or worse) elevates the perpetrator to celebrity status.

It is impossible for us to grasp all that, which is why Hamas's DARVO ("Oh, but we just wanted to be heard!") approach has worked so well on the liberal West. It explains things in terms we can get our heads round. Believing that Israel can somehow "stop the cycle of radicalism" is, to put it mildly, naive.

Of course it is profoundly distressing to see and hear the suffering of children in wartime. There's never been a war in which such images, both real and fake, have proliferated and become viral. I wonder what would happen if Israel were to share the intimate videos of the murders, rapes, tortures, mutilations and live burnings that took place on 7/10. No doubt these would also stick in our minds for ever.

They don't do this, obviously, out of respect for the dead and their families, and I sometimes wonder if people actually have any idea what happened. I've seen posters talk about it as though a few teenagers at a party (a party they shouldn't have been at in the first place; how dare they have fun next to their suffering neighbours held in open cages!!) were shot at from a distance...

War is abominable, and to be avoided at all costs, not least because SPOILER ALERT CHILDREN DIE IN THEM!!! And wars are usually fought for all kinds of bogus political reasons, such as WW1. But if ever a country was justified in going to war, it's Israel. (Or "Isreal" as some people prefer to call it.)

(edited to fix some weird formatting shit that punctuation creates in posts!)

dairydebris · 04/09/2025 13:31