Triggernometry - interview with Netanyahu

[Digitalhen]

Thoughts on this interview?

Massive scoop for the Trigger podcast.

I listened to it and thought it was very interesting. I wish more people who seem so entrenched in their views would listen/watch it with an open mind.

The point he made about the Allies flattening Germany made me think. Looking back now, would we say that was justified in order to rid the world of evil and Hitler? We might not agree but we live in freedom today because of that action.

I expect you might get some flak on this thread. This particular board doesn’t take too kindly to anything which might offer an alternative viewpoint.

Oh dear - is there a better board for this post?

You’ve put it in the right place. There is just a very strong anti Israel sentiment here so it’s not likely to result in a balanced discussion.

Germany wasn't flattened. Industrial parts of many German cities were destroyed. Civilians died, horribly. It was proportionately less than the destruction/killing in Gaza and is not a model to be emulated in any case.

Thank you for posting it @Digitalhen

The interview is interesting. It’s true that the Allies would be getting a lot of criticism these days for what was done to Germany.

War is horrific and of course it shouldn’t be emulated. I think the argument that’s being made is that if, we the UK were being attacked we’d probably feel justified in ‘flattening’ the country or power that was attacking us. This is explained in the interview in more detail.

I watched this episode of Triggernometry last night and I thought it was very interesting. The points about Jews, after 2500 years of persecution, having no where else to flee to really hit home as did the analogy with the UK and Germany. Is what we did to Dresden and worse than what is happening in Gaza? I don’t know but it’s prompted me to do some research and have a think about these points.

Found this article about the bombing of Dresden. It’s a shocking read. Can you imagine this happening now on social media? Would we look on our role in the war the same way? Apologies for going off on a tangent but I think it’s relevant to the claims in the Triggernometry interview . https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/apocalypse-dresden-february-1945

If you have to return to the horrors of World War 2 to justify what is happening today, you are reaching back into the darkness.

I think you misunderstand. No one is trying to justify this. There is a much bigger point about how far a nation will go if they believe the threat is great enough. Call me cynical but I think every government is capable of this.

Wow, that is a shocking read. I believe our government today would absolutely resort to this again if they believed the threat was great enough.

I'm going to watch this episode because as much as I my outlook doesn't naturally fit with the presenters - they are very good at assessing a rational argument. I may not agree with them but they do question areas which aren't very logical.

However, the Dresden argument is moot. It is not apples for apples. You are completely naive if you are UK and don't know about the shocking violence of it. I can also tell you that Germany bombed English cities (my knowledge covers a specific northern city) but wanted to protect (strategic) assets and heritage as the overall plan was to rule.

Trying to link Dresden back to the current conflict is disingenuous

There is no justification for what Netanyahu is doing. None. Almost all my grandfather's family were murdered by the Nazis for being Jewish; what Netanyahu is doing is a betrayal of their memory.

It disgusts me that he is using their fate as a justification for doing this. It does not protect the future of Israel, it does not protect Jews, it achieves the opposite. There is no sustainable future for Israel without a free Palestine - Netanyahu has assured that now. Also, a strong diaspora is important for the future and safety of Jews too, but Netanyahu and his ilk don't want people to know that. They want Jews to feel we cannot exist without Israel so enough of us can go there to push Palestinians out.

It's an emotive argument, but it's also a wrong and twisted one.

That’s not what I am doing. Have you read what I’ve posted or just jumped to a conclusion? I’m trying to think critically about the points made in the interview and how the media is so quick to label everyone as a goodie or baddie. The Allied forces in WW2 are definitely in the goodie category, but they inflicted horrors on the people of Dresden.

I also think that the British public would be absolutely baying for it too. After 7/7 the British public were absolutely baying for blood and we helped the US flattened several countries….with none of the criticism and condemnation that Israel is now facing. I absolutely condemn the bombing of Gaza but I can understand how Israels must feel given that this has been done many times by many countries but for some reason, it only attracts such visceral condemnation when it’s perpetrated by Israel.

Criticism these days? It was criticised at the time. The Associated Press called it “terror bombing” which was also how an MP described it in parliament when calling for an inquiry.
Churchill (more than a little bit hypocritically since I assume he bloody ordered it) wrote at the time “It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing.” He also said the Allies had “slipped into the position of mere acts of terror and wanton destruction”.

It was also criticised by the press in neutral countries. So I think it’s slightly delusional to think it wouldn’t have been more widely criticised if there’d been rolling news and Twitter.

Yes, absolutely the British bombing campaign was condemned in many quarters at the time, too.

I went on the 2003 ‘Stop the war’ protest (against military action in Iraq) as I just couldn’t shake the feeling they were aiming at the wrong ‘baddie’. Had never been on a march before and haven’t since. But I remember being a bit sheepish/embarrassed about taking part - the public mood felt very much like ‘let’s nuke them all’. Most of my friends were very much in support of invading Iraq. It was ‘payback’ for Sept 11.

He’s justifying the starvation and killing of a civilian population. And this interview is just a platform for his lies and propaganda. It is not a good interview. It doesn’t challenge his lies properly.

Are you in the US? It was the only place where the vast majority were pro the war.

more than half the UK population were against Iraq without UN approval. Globally public opinion was against the war.

WW2 is not back into the darkness.

It was only 80 years ago, and it’s shocking to think that this is one of the longest periods of peace in all of history. The peace we currently have is a rare thing indeed.

We have been lucky enough to forget the horrors of war, but we are certainly not above it and it just shows how complacent we all are to think it could not happen again.

the legal framework has evolved significantly since Dresden which would be considered a war crime today. It was morally unjustifiable and so is Gaza.

You may consider Dresden to be morally unjustifiable, but it was necessary to end the war, to allow us the rare 80 years of peace under which we have lived and to allow the legal framework you mentioned to be drafted.

Can you let me know which wars have been fought since Dresden where war crimes were not a feature?

Can you let me know which wars have been fought since Dresden which were morally justifiable?

That’s debatable and has been debated many times.

War crimes are fine …everyone does them..

Is that where the argument has gone to? At least you are admitting the war crimes and by invoking Dresden you are admitting collective punishment.

War crimes are fine …everyone does them..

I don’t remember saying that. Can you quote where I said that please?

I asked you to name a war since Dresden where war crimes were not a feature and where action was taken that was morally justifiable.

You haven’t answered because you well know that war crimes have been committed in every single war that has been fought since Dresden, despite the legal framework, and that every action taken in those wars is morally unjustifiable.

Israel is not an outlier.

At least you are admitting the war crimes and by invoking Dresden you are admitting collective punishment.

Admitting the war crimes? Of course there are war crimes. War crimes are a feature of every single war.

Israel is not an outlier.

Also, I’m not invoking Dresden. I responded directly to your post that suggested the horrors of WW2 are so far back in history that we could never return there. It was 80 years ago. Living memory for some people.

We are the exact same people now, as we were then. We haven’t needed to wage such a war. Yet. But it could very well happen.