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Conflict in the Middle East

Palestine Action demo 9 August

415 replies

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 09:35

To my amazement, last night I discovered that some posters on MN think that "radical Islam" means simply "Muslim" 😬

I wonder if this explains why so many are unconcerned about who might be pulling the strings behind the "peace" rallies that were first organised on 7 October? Do they know what radical Islam is, how powerful it is, that it is widely acknowledged as the greatest threat to UK national security, that its intentions are clearly stated, that it is 10000000% different than simply observing Muslim faith?

Palestine Action are planning a rally in central London on Saturday and hope to overwhelm the police presence. Is anyone concerned about this? I'm worried that the seeds of civil unrest are being sown, without it being entirely clear who is sowing them.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-police-palestine-action-protest-b1241347.html

OP posts:
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NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:26

Dangermoo · 06/08/2025 09:59

You're not concerned at terrorists, who seek to immobilise UK military aircraft?

Anything is permissible to some if it supports 'Palestine'. Strange but there are very blinkered people out there with black and white thinking to the point of obsession.

Personally I feel anyone who breaks into a military base and damages equipment/airplanes etc that are to protect the UK are terrorists and should be locked up.

Palestine Action also took a sledgehammer to a police officer - as I said, to some anything is permissible if it supports 'Palestine'.

somethingischasingme · 08/08/2025 12:27

It’s a Palestine Solidarity Campaign legally organised March on Saturday 9th. If people use the March to openly express support for Palestine Action then that is currently illegal as they are a proscribed terrorist group at this time.

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:29

Twiglets1 · 08/08/2025 08:16

I believe I stand corrected that Jesus was a Jew.

Though I've just read that in Islam he is considered a Muslim so now I don't know again... there doesn't seem to be a consensus on this.

Edited

He couldn't be a Muslim because the Muslim faith - Islam wasn't even thought up by Mohammed when Jesus was around. Jesus predates Islam.

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:34

Beachtastic · 08/08/2025 10:36

Well, things took a turn last night! I wasn't expecting to be discussing Jesus on this thread 😀 but it does show how a religious perspective can colour worldviews in a way that is no longer familiar to the largely secular UK population of the 21st century.

@Thelmaandloulou you said I was disappearing down a rabbithole of conspiracy theories, but I don't think so. A conspiracy is something hidden that requires careful investigation. Islamic jihad is a bit of an umbrella term for all sorts of things, but at its most extreme it makes absolutely no secret of wanting to impose Sharia law and seeking to dispose of anything that gets in the way of that (literally, "war on infidels"). Efforts in this direction are rewarded with Paradise, which means nothing to us but is a huge gilded carrot for those who believe in it.

This article describes the threat to Europe by individuals radicalised since Oct 2023 by online propaganda (including AI deepfake):
https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/new-report-terrorists-exploiting-global-tensions

Key figures from 2023:
120 terrorist incidents across seven EU Member States, including 98 completed attacks, 9 failed attempts, and 13 foiled plots, marking a significant rise from 2022.
6 fatalities and 12 injuries resulted from jihadist attacks, the deadliest form of terrorism in the EU.
426 arrests for terrorism-related offences were made across 22 Member States, with jihadist offences accounting for 78 % of the total.

It will be, errrrmmm, "interesting" to see what happens tomorrow. I hope as usual our home security has things under control. I really don't want to end up like France. We had a holiday in Brittany a couple of winters ago and were shocked to see the Christmas street market patrolled by dozens of gendarmes armed with MP5s. In shops like LIDL, the in/out doors were controlled so that no one could simultaneously enter/leave, and bags searched.

Radical Islam is a threat to a lot of the world. We are sleep walking into a problem in the future which our grandchildren etc will have to cope with. Look at the majority of terrorism around the world and look at the perpetrators.

France has a growing problem with attacks and has been slow to wake up to the problem.

JamesMacGill · 08/08/2025 12:43

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:34

Radical Islam is a threat to a lot of the world. We are sleep walking into a problem in the future which our grandchildren etc will have to cope with. Look at the majority of terrorism around the world and look at the perpetrators.

France has a growing problem with attacks and has been slow to wake up to the problem.

Yes. It’s absolute cowardice to let unvetted men from high risk terrorist countries pour into the country to ‘be kind’. What the fuck do people think will happen if Islam becomes the majority religion here? For a clue look at every other country where this has happened - what was the result there? How are the women treated? How are some of the men treated for that matter? We are absolutely suicidal in that respect.

Beachtastic · 08/08/2025 12:43

somethingischasingme · 08/08/2025 12:27

It’s a Palestine Solidarity Campaign legally organised March on Saturday 9th. If people use the March to openly express support for Palestine Action then that is currently illegal as they are a proscribed terrorist group at this time.

Yes, it has been organised by other means as they are now unable to do so directly.

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NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:46

Beachtastic · 07/08/2025 21:07

The fact is that we are not party to any real information at all. Even those with access to military/antiterrorist intelligence have a limited picture.

Have you ever been closely involved in a news-reported event? I have, a few times. What was astonishing was how each event was reported in the media. The story bore little relation to the truth. And that was just trivial stuff. The stakes are much higher in war, and everyone knows that both side use propaganda to further their cause.

I have a feeling that this particular war will go down in history as the watershed moment when the influence of social media became vividly apparent.

OK, we enjoy flaunting our views on here and digging our teeth into each other. It's all futile.

I have a sneaking suspicion that behind the scenes, no one knows what to do about Gaza. The spoken words of condemnation do not match up with actions. I suspect behind doors, a lot of countries (obviously not the many ME countries that want to see Israel obliterated) are more or less saying "Rather you than me."

Of course, I have no idea! And neither do any of us.

What bothers me is things like seeing "pro-Palestinian" marches in our capital city that were organised on 7 October 2023. Coincidence? Really? Seeing UK citizens who have never paid a moment's attention to ME politics suddenly "well informed" about a chaotic history that even a specialist historian has trouble unravelling. Noticing just the other night that a lot of posters on the CITME forum have absolutely no concept of what radical Islam is - how it has poisoned Gaza, how it seeks to destroy Israel, how it literally seeks global domination (I know this sounds bonkers! but there we are...) Seeing chants of "Death to the IDF!" greeted with applause at Glastonbury, supposedly a peaceful music festival, FFS. Seeing our own citizens marching in processions just after 7 Oct, chanting "From the river to the sea!" and innocently believing (I hope) that there is nothing harmful meant by it.

Call me weird for thinking that something is very wrong here.

Yep. The radical Islamists are loving it. Divide the west and conquer it. A lot seem to be very ignorant of the facts behind the stories but love a quick easy twitter or Tic Toc type soundbite to regurgitate often. By the way doesn't make me a 'genocide supporter' a 'supporter of killing babies' and all the other names that many seem to love throwing around. I just realise that there is more to the story and years and years of more to the story.

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:47

Has this thread now become one of those other immigrant bashing threads?

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:48

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:47

Has this thread now become one of those other immigrant bashing threads?

How on earth is talking about radical islam (which exists) and is a threat and talking of the history going back years an 'immigrant bashing thread"! What on earth are you on about.

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:50

The radical Islamists have alot of power if they have managed to divide and conquer the west. Some have blamed islamists, some have blamed the immigrants, who are you going to blame next for your woes?

JamesMacGill · 08/08/2025 12:51

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:50

The radical Islamists have alot of power if they have managed to divide and conquer the west. Some have blamed islamists, some have blamed the immigrants, who are you going to blame next for your woes?

You’ll make yourself silly if you make out having valid concerns about terrorism is some kind of personal failing.

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:51

This thread has really gone through all the motions 😂

JamesMacGill · 08/08/2025 12:52

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 12:48

How on earth is talking about radical islam (which exists) and is a threat and talking of the history going back years an 'immigrant bashing thread"! What on earth are you on about.

Because ‘hatred of immigrants’ has become a political Trojan horse through which Islamists can sneak their policy. Thankfully the public is waking.

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 13:06

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:50

The radical Islamists have alot of power if they have managed to divide and conquer the west. Some have blamed islamists, some have blamed the immigrants, who are you going to blame next for your woes?

Concern about the number of terrorist type attacks being perpetuated by radical Islamists is not a laughing matter. I don't imagine the people of the attacks (details posted upthread) in France are laughing much. It's a real threat. I know a person that worked in counter terrorism and it is really a real and present threat. Just because you don't have the wherewithal to consider that doesn't mean the threat is not real.

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 13:11

JamesMacGill · 08/08/2025 12:51

You’ll make yourself silly if you make out having valid concerns about terrorism is some kind of personal failing.

Indeed. Strange for some to be so dismissive of a proven and real threat.

EasternStandard · 08/08/2025 13:22

JamesMacGill · 08/08/2025 12:51

You’ll make yourself silly if you make out having valid concerns about terrorism is some kind of personal failing.

Agree. And the usual emoji level responses.

CurlyZoo · 08/08/2025 13:50

I did a masters in theology some years ago and as I remember it, in Islam...

Anyone who submits to God as per the laws of Moses, is a Muslim. So they consider all the biblical Jews to be Muslim - Noah, Abraham, Moses - all.

That doesn't mean they think that they followed the religion of Islam as that was revealed later. To Muslims, Islam didn’t start with Muhammad, but was the final, completed form of the same faith delivered through all prophets.

So I suppose the way I understood it was thar there were Jews, and then Christianity came along and said "oh yes that was all correct but now there's a new messiah" and upgraded / converted everyone. Then a thousand years later Islam came along and did the same with Mohammed. So the three built on each other and declared what came before as part of the story but not the full story.

But of course, Jesus was a Jew. That is how he himself would have identified and it's quite naughty if people deny that!

NoSoundbitesPlease · 08/08/2025 13:59

CurlyZoo · 08/08/2025 13:50

I did a masters in theology some years ago and as I remember it, in Islam...

Anyone who submits to God as per the laws of Moses, is a Muslim. So they consider all the biblical Jews to be Muslim - Noah, Abraham, Moses - all.

That doesn't mean they think that they followed the religion of Islam as that was revealed later. To Muslims, Islam didn’t start with Muhammad, but was the final, completed form of the same faith delivered through all prophets.

So I suppose the way I understood it was thar there were Jews, and then Christianity came along and said "oh yes that was all correct but now there's a new messiah" and upgraded / converted everyone. Then a thousand years later Islam came along and did the same with Mohammed. So the three built on each other and declared what came before as part of the story but not the full story.

But of course, Jesus was a Jew. That is how he himself would have identified and it's quite naughty if people deny that!

Thank you, that's interesting.

GentleSheep · 08/08/2025 14:03

CurlyZoo · 08/08/2025 13:50

I did a masters in theology some years ago and as I remember it, in Islam...

Anyone who submits to God as per the laws of Moses, is a Muslim. So they consider all the biblical Jews to be Muslim - Noah, Abraham, Moses - all.

That doesn't mean they think that they followed the religion of Islam as that was revealed later. To Muslims, Islam didn’t start with Muhammad, but was the final, completed form of the same faith delivered through all prophets.

So I suppose the way I understood it was thar there were Jews, and then Christianity came along and said "oh yes that was all correct but now there's a new messiah" and upgraded / converted everyone. Then a thousand years later Islam came along and did the same with Mohammed. So the three built on each other and declared what came before as part of the story but not the full story.

But of course, Jesus was a Jew. That is how he himself would have identified and it's quite naughty if people deny that!

Unfortunately the Muslim God isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that Jews and Christians worship! Islam isn't an 'upgrade' of Judaism and Christianity, it is quite different and a perversion of those faiths.

Dangermoo · 08/08/2025 14:04

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 12:51

This thread has really gone through all the motions 😂

I think we saw an agenda in your earlier question, which, thankfully Jewish people chose to ignore.

Beachtastic · 08/08/2025 14:11

GentleSheep · 08/08/2025 14:03

Unfortunately the Muslim God isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that Jews and Christians worship! Islam isn't an 'upgrade' of Judaism and Christianity, it is quite different and a perversion of those faiths.

I don't think we can call Islam a perversion of anything! Radical Islam, however, is what many consider a perversion of the Islam faith.

OP posts:
Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 14:20

GentleSheep · 08/08/2025 14:03

Unfortunately the Muslim God isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that Jews and Christians worship! Islam isn't an 'upgrade' of Judaism and Christianity, it is quite different and a perversion of those faiths.

According to who?

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 14:20

Dangermoo · 08/08/2025 14:04

I think we saw an agenda in your earlier question, which, thankfully Jewish people chose to ignore.

Maybe they were also shocked at the turn the thread took.

CurlyZoo · 08/08/2025 14:39

Judaism is different from Christianity and Islam in that it doesn’t have one single historical founder or a clear “start date.” It’s something that grew and developed over thousands of years as a shared faith, culture, and national identity of the Jewish people, with roots going back over 3,000 years to the ancient Israelites in the Levant.

It came with a shared moral and legal framework for everyday life, bringing people together through common laws, worship, and festivals. Those traditions became the backbone of Jewish identity and helped the Jewish people survive dispersion, persecution, and even periods when many weren’t religious at all, while still keeping that connection to their history. Personally, I think that’s a beautiful story of endurance and resilience.

Christianity started as a movement within Judaism, centred on the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and Son of God. Islam was founded by the Prophet Muhammad, sees both Judaism and Christianity as earlier revelations, and considers itself the final and complete message from God.

People either accepted those new and "updated" beliefs or didn’t - and a lot of history since then has been shaped by the struggle over who’s “right.” And a great deal of blood has been shed too obviously.

I’m not really religious myself, but I do see meaning in all of them. I think religion began as a way for people to make sense of a scary, unpredictable world and to form communities with shared values. I found studying the birth of Christianity to be quite moving really on some level -because the people all that time ago were really looking for answers to the things that scared them. Like "what happens when I die?".

Unfortunately of course much of it became polluted, and over time, it also became a tool for gaining power and control, especially once empires came into the picture - and that’s when it often got used for the wrong reasons, which is a shame. Today, in my view this is certainly the case with radical Islam which is a complete perversion of the Abrahamic moral standards.

I'm not an expert of Islam, I focussed completely on Judaism and Christianity, but in the modern world, religion can still be twisted for violent ends. Radical Islam is one example - it takes selective, extreme interpretations of Islamic texts and uses them to justify terrorism, oppression, and intolerance, often targeting both non-Muslims and Muslims who don’t share their views.

This isn’t representative of Islam as a whole, which has a long history of scholarship, art, and peaceful practice, but it shows how dangerous religion can become when hijacked by political agendas and extremist ideologies. The line between a group which unifies people and supports communities and basically a cult, is quite a fine one!

I think our modern politics actually mirrors this too - we can be unified in causes like human rights, or women's rights and then these very good things can become quite perverted when people try and claim people who are committing acts of violence and intimidation as allowed to do it because..."the cause".

Dangermoo · 08/08/2025 14:51

Thelmaandloulou · 08/08/2025 14:20

Maybe they were also shocked at the turn the thread took.

Islamic extremism is the crux of the thread. The poster, was the one, wanting to explore the bible. Sometimes, you just have to sit back and wait for the inevitable.

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