How is forced starvation allowed?

[Tinycatnoise]

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

Rather than moving to insults, why not just explain what is wrong about what @Voxon said.

Israel's Ambassador to the UN, still claiming no Starvation or Famine in Gaza.....These people are just plain evil.

That's a lot of word salad. Things are either facts or opinions. You can accuse someone of being "deluded" if their opinions do not tally with facts, but actually my post is just a list of facts that can be proved true.

So to list those facts again:

Fact 1: Hamas / Gaza is under military blocked because it's engaged in a decades long campaign of annihilation against it's neighbouring state.

Fact 2: The Gaza government is a terrorist organisation.

Fact 3: Hamas doesn't want to look after it's civilians and has openly said it is the UNs responsibility.

Fact 4: the UN has refused largely to deliver aid because they say it's too dangerous.

Fact 5: they say "armed actors" attack convoys.

Fact 6: Israel has offered to provide them with security so they can deliver aid safely but they have refused that offer.

Fact 7: Hamas will not surrender, or give back the hostages.

Please let me know which you think are false and I will happily provide evidence that they are true.

Well, the world has an official system for this and I would imagine the ambassador to the UN knows what it is.

I believe it’s possible to have an honest discussion about the severity of the crisis without misusing terms or vilifying those who choose to use language accurately.

"Famine" isn't an abstract concept. The IPC (developed by the UN’s FAO and partners) leads the classification process in declaring a famine wherever one exists. There is currently a famine in Haiti.

Famine declaration is technical, not political, and based on field data and surveys. “Famine” is the most severe crisis level - Phase 5 - and is only declared when people are already dying in large numbers. This field data is being collected in Gaza so we know if it is a famine or not, it isn't a debate.

The IPC Phase 5 criteria to declare a famine are as follows:

CRITERIA 1: At least 20% of households face extreme food shortages
They lack food and are unable to cope without external aid. I believe this one has been met a very long time ago.

CRITERIA 2: At least 30% of the population is acutely malnourished
The UN is screening children for malnutrition, so we know the % who are suferring from it. The last report from the UN on 23rd July said as follows: "Around one in ten children screened in UNRWA health facilities across the Gaza Strip is malnourished" - so that is 1 in 10, nowhere near meeting this threshold. Another NGO is reporting the rate at double that, but - the UN data is the official one - and even if it weren't the NGOs figure still does not meet the 30% criteria.

Evidence Link: https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/unrwa-situation-report-181-situation-gaza-strip-and-west-bank-including-east-jerusalem

CRITERIA 3: At least 2 people (or 4 children) per 10,000 die each day
It must be at or above this threshold due to starvation or famine-related disease and at the moment whilst data is sketchy the last we heard from the WHO was that in all of 2025, 73 people have died of malnourishment. Most of those in July as the situation reached crisis level.

You can check the threshold here: https://www.ipcinfo.org/famine-facts/

So you can have clarity on that, a famine by the definition of famine, requires at least 2 deaths per 10,000 people per day from hunger or hunger-related disease, which for Gaza’s population of around 2.2 million would mean approximately 440 deaths per day, or over 13,000 deaths in a month. WHO data for July reported 63 malnutrition-related deaths - a tragic figure, but nowhere near the threshold required for a famine classification.

So as point of fact, 2 of the 3 criteria required to declare a "famine" are not present.

Famine means widespread, systematic collapse of food access across a population, with mass deaths and acute malnutrition at scale.

Starvation means some people are dying or suffering due to lack of food - which can happen in war zones, sieges, or blockades, even if the broader population has enough to avoid famine.

So yes, people have died from starvation, almost all in July. That’s tragic and serious. But better discussed by addressing with accurate wording and transparency.

Evidence Link: https://www.who.int/news/item/27-07-2025-malnutrition-rates-reach-alarming-levels-in-gaza--who-warns

Terms like “famine,” “starvation,” and “genocide” are used in media headlines, public protests, and even by some UN officials. These statements are often politically charged and emotionally powerful, but that does not mean they are accurate.

Whilst these accusations have been going around since December 2023, it is only this month that there is any evidence to support a correct classification of "at risk of famine" or "approaching famine" which appears to be factually what is the case unless there is very fast intervention.

On the contrary, everytime someone tries another bad faith attack on @Voxon it just leads to her calmy dismantling them with more evidence and cogent argument. All very helpfully set out for everyone to read. I can see why you don't know where to start, so you reach for 'hasbara' and other insults.

These are the words of Lt. Col. Tony Aguilar, a 25-year U.S. Army Green Beret and Purple Heart recipient who was stationed inside Gaza working for the U.S.-Israeli-run Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), describing how Amir, the 12 year old Palestinian child, walked 12 kilometres to the aid centre to get aid, kissed his hand, before later being shot by Israelis.
“On May 28, at secure distribution site #2, this young boy, Amir, walks over to me, reaches out & kisses my hand…”
“This boy is not wearing shoes. His clothes are falling off of him because he is so skinny… He doesn’t have a box — he has half a bag of rice, lentils, and he was thanking us.”
“He walked 12 kilometers to get there … and when he got there, he thanked us for the crumbs he got … and he set them on the ground with his frail, skeletal, emaciated hands, and he kissed me and said ‘thank you.’”
“And then he collected his items, walked back to the group, and then he was shot at — with pepper spray, and tear gas, and stun grenades, and bullets…”
“They are shooting into this crowd. Palestinians, civilians, human beings — are dropping to the ground. And Amir was one of them.”
“Amir walked 12 kilometers to get food, got nothing but scraps, thanked us for it… and died.”
Source: https://www.thenorthstar.com/p/us-green-beret-breaks-down-in-tears

Seems Aguilar only worked for GHF for a short while and is now actively attempting to discredit them be ause his contract was terminated. Not a very reliable witness .

Ex-US contractor who accused IDF of war crimes at aid sites 'falsified documents' to spread 'false narrative,' GHF says, sharing evidence | The Times of Israel share.google/hZpyoEN3c5rbM3sp4

I’m increasingly concerned about the volume and tone of posts from certain users who seem to be on this thread for 6+ hours daily and regularly present distorted or misleading versions of events.

There’s been highly coordinated behaviour from a small number of posters dominating this thread for hours daily, shutting down any criticism of Israeli policy, and repeatedly twisting humanitarian reports. That doesn’t look like healthy debate.

Here are just a few examples of where facts have been twisted to support a pro-Israel narrative, often in direct contradiction to reputable sources like the UN, OCHA, MSF and the WFP:

1. Misrepresenting UN data on aid truck interceptions
“According to the UN2720 Monitoring & Tracking Report… 85% of UN aid trucks were intercepted… either peacefully by hungry people or forcefully by Hamas-affiliated looters.”

The UN2720 site does not mention Hamas by name, nor does it make claims of “85% looted.” It notes general “interceptions” or aid being accessed by desperate civilians and armed actors, without assigning blame. Voxon added non-existent detail to imply UN condemnation of Hamas, which is not stated.

2. Shifting blame from the Israeli military blockade to the UN and Hamas
“There are many reasons why children are starving… A key one is that the UN reported 80% of [aid] was stolen or intercepted. Another is that the UN can’t or won’t operate unless there’s a ceasefire… which Hamas could grant.”

UN agencies (WFP, OCHA, UNRWA) have consistently stated that Israeli obstruction, bombardment, and lack of security guarantees are the main causes of aid delays. The UN has not “refused” to deliver aid- they’ve repeatedly called for safe humanitarian corridors and ceasefires, which Israel has blocked.

3. Accusing international media of “exploiting” disabled children for propaganda
“They exploited the image of a child with cerebral palsy to push a famine story in order to demonise Israel… why not share medical needs so the child could get help?”

This statement deflects blame from the root cause- Israel’s blockade, which prevents medical aid and specialist formula from entering Gaza. Suggesting journalists are using disabled children for “propaganda” ignores the urgent reality and dehumanises victims to serve a narrative.

4. Dismissing concern for Palestinian suffering as performative
“Let’s be honest: a lot of people here aren’t driven by compassion. They’re here to bash Israel and get very cross when anyone interferes.”

This is a classic DARVO tactic (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender). It frames expressions of grief, concern or calls for accountability as fake or malicious- effectively gaslighting people who speak up for Palestinian civilians.

5. Claiming the war is due to people denying “Jewish rights to ancestral land”
“This entire war exists because some people don’t believe Jews have the right to live, let alone live freely in their ancestral homeland.”

This is a dangerous conflation of criticism of Israeli government actions with antisemitism. The UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and the ICC have all highlighted violations of international law in Gaza- not because they oppose Jewish existence, but because of indiscriminate bombardment and collective punishment.

These users posts routinely ignore the actual statements of humanitarian organisations and instead construct a narrative where Israel is blameless, the UN is corrupt, and critics are bigots.

Oh and I could go on… but can’t believe I forgot the deflection from civilian starvation…

“Children starving in Gaza is overwhelmingly down to Hamas who started a war and are in complete control.”

Completely denying the reality of:

• Israel cutting off food, water, fuel, medicine, and blocking over 80% of aid.
• Ongoing military operations that make aid distribution inside Gaza impossible.
• Documented starvation deaths, which meet UN famine thresholds.

Even if Hamas bears responsibility for the Oct 7 attack, international law prohibits the starvation of civilians as collective punishment.

Oh and completely ignoring how starvation affects infants first, and the widespread evidence of malnutrition from Médecins Sans Frontières and UN nutrition screenings.

Aguilar’s short time with GHF doesn’t make him unreliable, and contract termination isn’t proof he’s lying. Accusations of falsified documents need independent proof.

They'd argue black is white and drowning kittens is justified if they needed to 🙄 I'm totally satisfied that their 'explanations' are completely pointless now because nobody is falling for it. I get around the internet a bit and everyone is appalled and disgusted by what's going on in Gaza and the West Bank. Sickened and disgusted. I'm reading some very surprising comments that wouldn't have been made a couple of years ago. The world has woken up. They're pissing in the wind by their attempts to defend the indefensible.

Oh my!

Arguing about whether there is a famine in Gaza or whether there is "just" starvation....

Or as Stalin once said "1 death is a tragedy, 1,000,000 is a statistic..."

Time and time again, it has been proven that by the time a famine is shown to be occurring, its all rather too late.

How about Netanyahu is forced to open up crossing, lets flood Gaza with aid, let in Journalist and argue over wording later??

I don't whether some mean to come across as totally uncaring but thats exactly how they do, there is little humanity in this discussion from certain posters.

I'd be very surprised if there was any co-ordination at all, never mind a 'high' level of co-ordination, but its not something I'm aware of. Are you co-ordinating anti-Israeli posters? Is that a thing? Who co-ordinates you?

As a fairly prolific poster yourself I don't really think its up to you or anyone else to judge how much time others spend here. Perhaps people could give them a break and not post quite so much stuff that requires refuting?
Noone, has said Israel is blameless. Noone equates all criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Its a ludicrous accusation that gets wheeled out way too often to discredit anyone who is sympathetic to Israel, and Im bored to death of pointing it out. Though there is plenty of evidence that the UN is corrupt and frankly it would be surprising if it wasnt. Its just a collection of the nations of the world, most of which are corrupt to varying degrees.

He's also a former green beret, the most elite group in the US army. Funny how all of a sudden according the GHF (the absolute shit show) he is a liar.

They do, you've accused me of it, more than once, i'm a defender of Antisemitism according you.

Nothing, if you knew my background, could be further from the truth.

I just want the suffering in Gaza to stop, hostages released, medical and food aid allowed back in, kids given education, prosthetics etc etc eventually the place rebuilt

Only one side can facilitate this and thats the Israeli Govt, not Hamas, as they are a terrorist organisation and do not operate inside normal democratic values.. to put it mildly.

Even if it means Hamas are given free passage to another country, it should happen, those people cannot be allowed to be held captive any longer.

Agree with @SharonEllis there is no co-ordination whatsoever - or I'm sure between us we would have been approached since both are regular posters.

It's really scraping the bottom of the barrel isn't it, to try to think of new ways to discredit supporters of Israel without breaking talk guidelines? Thus we get the completely made up and unprovable suggestion of "highly co-ordinated behaviour" and the insult that isn't actually an insult at all - namely that someone posts a lot on these boards.

Boris seems to think the debate would be healthier without the "small number" of pro Israel posters who are "dominating this thread." There are indeed fewer of us than those attacking Israel for everything. I'm sure the tone would be better - for @Wedonttalkaboutboris - without us providing some balance - but it would hardly be a healthy debate, more like an echo chamber.

Well exactly. I'm a bit insulted that I'm apparently not worthy of being co-ordinated.

I’m not having to “think of new ways to discredit supporters of Israel.” As I’ve clearly outlined in my original post, this is about raising concerns about misinformation and the repeated dismissal of credible evidence. It’s about holding all participants to a standard of honest, fact-based discussion that respects the truth and the human impact of this conflict.

This isn’t balance- it’s a repeated pattern of misinformation and deflection that undermines healthy debate and obscures the lived realities of Palestinian civilians.

I welcome genuine, fact-based contributions from all perspectives, but what we’re seeing falls far short of that.

I'm livid. In fact I'm refusing to believe it.

We’ve all been repeatedly accused of antisemitism simply for raising facts and highlighting credible reports.

This seems pretty damning -

In the briefing, GHF spokesperson Chapin Fay shares the content of text messages that show that Aguilar was “terminated for misconduct,” and did not, as he claimed, resign from GHF’s security partner UG Solutions by choice.

After he pleaded to be rehired and was turned away, he “threatened UG Solutions with retribution,” Fay says, citing a message sent by Aguilar on June 15 in which he warned that he could be the company’s “best friend or worst nightmare.”

After the pleas failed to yield results, Aguilar turned to the press, Fay says.

@Wedonttalkaboutboris lol at you "raising concerns" ... I suggest you raise them with MNHQ and also ask them to look into the highly co-ordinated thing at the same time since they can read our private messages.

Back to mocking now, are we?
It’s disappointing that none of the actual points I raised have been addressed… again.

GHF turns on former employee "whistleblower"

Wow what a surprise!

But lets look at it in the context of what IDF soldiers, other contractors and medics have said.....

So if you think people are wrong debate with them, dont complain tney post too much. Just telling people to stop posting because you dont like what they say isnt really a credible position Im afraid.