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Conflict in the Middle East

Freedom Flotilla

1000 replies

Badh · 06/06/2025 23:11

Thought this might be worth its own thread. The freedom flotilla The Madleen was getting close to Gaza but seems to have made a diversion, as it was the closest boat to answer a distress call. They seem to also have four Sudanese asylum seekers on board who were trying to escape the Libyan coast patrol.

The UK and France are asking Israel for its safe passage.

The tracker is here but is in and out of action.
https://freedomflotilla.org/ffc-tracker/

More details here, although the latest detour is not covered in the article.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-navy-gears-up-to-block-high-profile-protest-ship-headed-for-gaza/amp/

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Twiglets1 · 10/06/2025 06:52

SharonEllis · 10/06/2025 06:29

This is hilarious. Good on Sweden. I'm sure the people needing Swedish consular support are big Greta fans now. Yet another example of how these spoilt brats were doing nothing more than getting in everyone's way.

And unbelievably people on here still thinking they were delivering aid. Even the flotillistas themselves said the aid they were carrying was just symbolic.

Yes, Sweden always seem so sensible.

Apologies for the source but I couldn't see the story being reported anywhere else apart from a Swedish source written in Swedish.

I did think myself it was a bit rich the activists & their supporters calling for their governments to support them immediately they had contact with Israel. Wasn't the supposed idea that they were there to help others?

All pre planned and very entitled.

Nowayyousure · 10/06/2025 07:01

ssd · 09/06/2025 21:49

1200 plus murdered on Oct 7th

54000 plus murdered in Gaza since Oct 7th

Who are the terrorists now?

Ah the numbers. Terrorism isn't about numbers. Warfare is brutal. Are you not aware of how many died in WW1 and WW2. Obviously not.

Badh · 10/06/2025 07:02

quantumbutterfly · 09/06/2025 22:50

So Egypt regularly stop these kind of marches? Because America.

No not regularly but it has happened. Maybe look it up instead of treating me like an idiot.

And I said it wasn’t just America either. What’s your problem? Have you an issue with something I have said about this.

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TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 07:03

Can you appreciate that opinions may vary, though, Twiglets? And that many people in, say, the UK or France, might genuinely feel conflicted about the wider situation beyond a simple sense of annoyance with an individual called Greta Thunberg?

Twiglets1 · 10/06/2025 07:10

TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 07:03

Can you appreciate that opinions may vary, though, Twiglets? And that many people in, say, the UK or France, might genuinely feel conflicted about the wider situation beyond a simple sense of annoyance with an individual called Greta Thunberg?

Yes of course I can appreciate that opinions vary, I see that over and over on these threads.

I'm giving my personal opinion which is that this trip has not been useful in terms of delivering aid to Gaza or helping the Palestinians. It may have been very slightly useful in raising awareness of the issue but the war was already extremely well publicised and reported on so again, not much help.

I think the trip was ego-driven by the activists. They already knew the amount of aid was symbolic only and that their governments would assist if they were in any real danger, which they weren't.

TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 07:22

I can understand the view that a person called Greta Thunberg is irrelevant to the wider situation. There needs to be an effective driving force in finding a lasting solution to the problems on the ground that are pressing and the inextricably linked geopolitical and sociocultural elements of the region. I imagine those who gathered at the Cairo Conference in 1921 felt something similar.

ssd · 10/06/2025 07:35

Nowayyousure · 10/06/2025 07:01

Ah the numbers. Terrorism isn't about numbers. Warfare is brutal. Are you not aware of how many died in WW1 and WW2. Obviously not.

So numbers don't count.do they ?

1200 plus murdered in Gaza, since oct 7
54,000 plus murdered in Israel on oct 7

How does that feel, do the numbers still not count?

sualipa · 10/06/2025 07:36

The campaign against Zaher Birawi is a textbook example of how intelligence tactics are used to discredit effective Palestinian advocates. Any international figure who gains real traction speaking up for Palestinian rights tends to come under intense scrutiny. If Israel genuinely had solid evidence linking someone like Birawi to Hamas or any banned group, they would share it with allies and we’d see arrests, charges, deportations. But that hasn’t happened.

Instead, when there’s no hard evidence and to avoid defamation claims the next tactic is often to get an MP to make the allegation in Parliament. Under parliamentary privilege, they can say whatever they like without needing to prove it. Once it’s said in the Commons, the media is free to report it, no matter how flimsy the source. The claim gains momentum as one outlet quotes another, and suddenly the allegation feels more credible just by repetition.

In Birawi’s case, NatWest closed his account over supposed terrorism links. But they later had to reverse that decision and pay compensation. If there had been anything substantial behind the claim, that wouldn’t have happened. The fact they backtracked so publicly speaks volumes about the weakness of the original allegation—and the damage that can be done by unproven smears.

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-10-26/debates/22ECC056-E236-41BA-95D5-84411C5098FF/details

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I provided advance notice of it to Mr Speaker earlier.

A few days ago, The Sunday Times reported on its front page that a “Hamas fugitive” who

“‘ran the group’s terrorist operations in the West Bank’”

lives here in London. Muhammad Qassem Sawalha is designated by Israel as a senior Hamas operative in Europe and accused of fleeing the country with fake documents. He is now believed to hold UK citizenship. Zaher Birawi lives in Barnet not far from Sawalha. He was designated by Israel in 2013 as a senior Hamas operative in Europe. He is listed as a trustee of a UK registered charity, Education Aid for Palestinians. A publicly available video shows him hosting a 2019 event in London titled “Understanding Hamas”.

Two weeks ago, Hamas launched the deadliest terror attack the world has seen since 9/11. This House rightly voted to proscribe Hamas in its entirety in November 2021. It is therefore a serious national security risk for Hamas operatives to be living here in London, especially where at least one appears to have done so through the use of fake documents in obtaining British citizenship.

Madam Deputy Speaker, can you advise me on how I might raise this with the Government as a matter of great urgency and ask if you have had any indication of a Minister seeking to come to the House to provide an urgent update on this matter?

Freedom Flotilla
ssd · 10/06/2025 07:48

So basically more lying propaganda from Israel. No matter how many posters here repeat and regurgitate Israeli propaganda its obvious a genocide is going on.

The whole world can see it too.

GretaGreen · 10/06/2025 07:51

NotABottie · 10/06/2025 01:05

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-bound-activist-boat-towed-to-ashdod-port-after-israeli-interception/

Apparently being medically checked by the genocidal Israelis.

The cowards apparently refused to see what they were actually supporting by watching a 45 minute video of footage taken by Hamas and the ‘innocent civilians’ who participated in Oct 7th themselves.

Says it all really.

I wonder how many on here have watched it in addition to watching all the propaganda videos out of Gaza? Just for balance like? The images will never leave you.

I’m not Israeli or Jewish but it invoked such anger and disgust in me (the cries of ‘slaughter the Jews, Allahu Akbar’, the pregnant woman having her fetus cut out and beheaded in front of her, the dead being attacked as if killing then wasn’t enough, the heads chopped off from soldiers and held up as trophies, the bodies of raped women), that I will never stop supporting Israel and know I am 100% on the right side.

This is a battle of good and evil. In that video, you see the evil plain and simple.

the pregnant woman having her fetus cut out and beheaded in front of her

You appear to be saying that you watched a video where you saw this. Through a list of victims it has been verified that this didn't in fact happen.

The reason I am flagging this is that this is the 3rd time in 2 days I have seen distressing, graphic descriptions from Oct 7 which include things that have been verified not to have happened, by regular posters on this board. This poster appears to be saying that she saw it with her own eyes. Another poster made it personal, she knew the victim, again it was something that from a list of victims was easy to verify that it didn't happen.

I reported posts to mumsnet and they basically said they don't care if the stories people tell here aren't true and to challenge it on the board so here I am.

Why is this happening to the degree that it is? I don't understand why, with all of the horrors that happened on Oct 7 people feel the need not just to fabricate stories but to make them personal. I saw them, it happened to someone that I know. It doesn't make it seem like those posters are posting here in good faith and makes it really difficult to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion.

Badh · 10/06/2025 07:54

Thanks for that @GretaGreen

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Badh · 10/06/2025 07:56

I do think there are some posters here just in bad faith. Not genuine voices, just sharing propaganda. And I have wondered if we should stop engaging with them. We are currently giving them oxygen.

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GretaGreen · 10/06/2025 08:02

Badh · 10/06/2025 07:56

I do think there are some posters here just in bad faith. Not genuine voices, just sharing propaganda. And I have wondered if we should stop engaging with them. We are currently giving them oxygen.

I don't know but I am interested to hear maybe from the posters in question why they are doing this. It did feel in bad taste to raise it when we all know that really awful horrors happened on Oct 7 so I did hold off on 'challenging' like mumsnet advised to do until like I said this is the third time in 2 days I have seen it from regular posters here.

Maybe that poster is just mistaken and she didn't mean her post to read like she saw this on video and she actually doesn't realise that she is spreading false information?

Twiglets1 · 10/06/2025 08:04

Badh · 10/06/2025 07:56

I do think there are some posters here just in bad faith. Not genuine voices, just sharing propaganda. And I have wondered if we should stop engaging with them. We are currently giving them oxygen.

Tbh that is a feeling shared by both sides of the debate.

I also fear that some posters on the anti Israel side are not posting in good faith but just sharing propaganda they got straight out of Hamas sources without questioning it's reliability.

But of course no one has to engage.

SharonEllis · 10/06/2025 08:06

ssd · 10/06/2025 07:35

So numbers don't count.do they ?

1200 plus murdered in Gaza, since oct 7
54,000 plus murdered in Israel on oct 7

How does that feel, do the numbers still not count?

Nobody said numbers don't count. Its a question of definition. The police don't look at how many are killed before deciding if something is a terrorist incident.

TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 08:10

‘I reported posts to mumsnet and they basically said they don't care if the stories people tell here aren't true and to challenge it on the board so here I am.’

@GretaGreen how interesting. I received a similar email from MNHQ about a thread that was spouting wildly incorrect ‘facts’ about children in the criminal justice system, while I noted that at the same time MNHQ were very actively deleting ‘speculation’ about another similar issue.

Personally the last thing I want to do is ‘feel free to challenge it on the thread’, because I don’t wish to contribute to making such a thread full of such misinformation even more visible in Active and to give the information more traction as a ‘debating point’. And of course to be told I’m thick, ignorant, vile, jealous, a cunt, etc etc. That’s not debate. It’s a pointless bun fight and MNHQ used to delete them, not encourage them.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 10/06/2025 08:12

@Twiglets1
some posters on the anti Israel side
I don't think it helps either to suggest posters are "anti Israel" people are not. People are anti the Israeli government actions in Gaza that is not the same thing, suggesting people are anti Israel just adds to the polarisation

TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 08:14

A lot of Israelis who love their homeland loathe the Netanyahu government and him as a person.

sualipa · 10/06/2025 08:17

GretaGreen · 10/06/2025 08:02

I don't know but I am interested to hear maybe from the posters in question why they are doing this. It did feel in bad taste to raise it when we all know that really awful horrors happened on Oct 7 so I did hold off on 'challenging' like mumsnet advised to do until like I said this is the third time in 2 days I have seen it from regular posters here.

Maybe that poster is just mistaken and she didn't mean her post to read like she saw this on video and she actually doesn't realise that she is spreading false information?

It’s so important to get the facts straight if for nothing else, then to be a credible witness and to let the true horrors speak for themselves. When I hear claims like “beheaded babies” that aren’t backed up with solid evidence, it makes me question everything else that’s being circulated. We owe it to the victims not just to react emotionally, but to be truthful and responsible with what we share.

As far as I know, Hamas hasn’t released any videos proudly showing what they did, unlike those early Israeli soldiers who spoke openly about what happened at Tantura during the War of Independence. Atrocities have been committed on both sides across history, and none of it can be excused. The real question is: how do we move forward from this? How do we acknowledge the suffering, seek justice, and stop history from repeating itself?

Badh · 10/06/2025 08:20

Twiglets1 · 10/06/2025 08:04

Tbh that is a feeling shared by both sides of the debate.

I also fear that some posters on the anti Israel side are not posting in good faith but just sharing propaganda they got straight out of Hamas sources without questioning it's reliability.

But of course no one has to engage.

Well call them out @Twiglets1 . Who is sharing Hamas propaganda?

And what I’m saying is more serious than that. There are clearly posters here who believe the Israeli administration wholeheartedly and that’s completely their right in a free country and I understand that people want to believe that Israel is fighting a just war. But there are others making things up - like we have seen above. Which is a deliberate spreading of misinformation and a different thing entirely.

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GretaGreen · 10/06/2025 08:21

TheAutumnCrow · 10/06/2025 08:10

‘I reported posts to mumsnet and they basically said they don't care if the stories people tell here aren't true and to challenge it on the board so here I am.’

@GretaGreen how interesting. I received a similar email from MNHQ about a thread that was spouting wildly incorrect ‘facts’ about children in the criminal justice system, while I noted that at the same time MNHQ were very actively deleting ‘speculation’ about another similar issue.

Personally the last thing I want to do is ‘feel free to challenge it on the thread’, because I don’t wish to contribute to making such a thread full of such misinformation even more visible in Active and to give the information more traction as a ‘debating point’. And of course to be told I’m thick, ignorant, vile, jealous, a cunt, etc etc. That’s not debate. It’s a pointless bun fight and MNHQ used to delete them, not encourage them.

Yes i don't really know how I feel about mumsnet putting the onus on posters to 'challenge' misinformation that is easily fact checked. Like you said it is opening the poster who challenges it up to abuse, I did hesitate before challenging this and like I said I let 2 previous incidents of it go. I half expect my post challenging the misinformation to be deleted to be honest. This is such a sensitive topic and it does feel really uncomfortable to be the one raising this issue rather than have mumsnet just hit the delete button and have the spread of misinformation stopped.

sualipa · 10/06/2025 08:25

GretaGreen · 10/06/2025 08:21

Yes i don't really know how I feel about mumsnet putting the onus on posters to 'challenge' misinformation that is easily fact checked. Like you said it is opening the poster who challenges it up to abuse, I did hesitate before challenging this and like I said I let 2 previous incidents of it go. I half expect my post challenging the misinformation to be deleted to be honest. This is such a sensitive topic and it does feel really uncomfortable to be the one raising this issue rather than have mumsnet just hit the delete button and have the spread of misinformation stopped.

I doubt they have the staff to really get into the weeds of complex discussions probably just enough to remove blatantly toxic or offensive content. I can imagine them having regular chats about certain ‘problematic’ forums, where passions run high, and debating whether it’s worth stepping in or just letting things play out.

TheignT · 10/06/2025 08:25

Twiglets1 · 10/06/2025 04:56

That’s ok … as long as their eyes are fine now then I think it can safely be assumed they were not sprayed with anything designed to harm them.

Maybe that’s partly why they had a medical (I imagine filmed) to prove there were no side effects from the process to get them removed from the boat as people like to throw accusations around. They will all be back in their home countries soon, planning their next trip in some cases.

So their boat was boarded, taken control of, they were taken to a country they didn't want to go to, they were held for some hours, they had medicals (did they consent to the medicals?) but it's all fine.

So I guess if someone hijacks your car today and does the same to you that would be fine with you?

TheignT · 10/06/2025 08:28

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 10/06/2025 08:12

@Twiglets1
some posters on the anti Israel side
I don't think it helps either to suggest posters are "anti Israel" people are not. People are anti the Israeli government actions in Gaza that is not the same thing, suggesting people are anti Israel just adds to the polarisation

I think lots of people are probably for food for starving babies, children, adults.

1dayatatime · 10/06/2025 08:28

Realistically though what did this flotilla actually achieve other than self promotion publicity for Greta Thunberg and her fellow passengers. It certainly wasn't publicity for Gaza and the Palestinians- this continues to be front page news.

They had a nice sailing trip across the Mediterranean in good weather, carrying minimal quantities of aid. They get stopped offshore, given sandwiches and water. They then get to watch a video of the 7th October terrorist attack and get sent on a free flight home.

All seems to be about shameless self promotion rather than genuinely trying to help ordinary Gazans.

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