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Conflict in the Middle East

What did you do during the genocide in Gaza?

1000 replies

ssd · 22/05/2025 22:05

This is a brilliant article.

This will be taught in schools one day and our grandkids will ask us but what did you do when you knew this was happening?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/22/israel-gaza-genocide

What did you do during the genocide in Gaza? | Arwa Mahdawi

When future generations read about Gaza with horror and wonder how we allowed a livestreamed genocide to happen, what will you say?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/22/israel-gaza-genocide

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 00:19

Odras · 09/07/2025 21:17

Chilling.

Truly chilling. The sanctions on ICC judges and now a UN official is chilling. Even if you vehemently disagree with her, nobody should champion this

Although I’d better get myself on the Trump thread to have some intelligent conversation about it.

Literally ON 7th October as the victims were still crawling through blood, this woman tweeted essentially that they had it coming.

France and Germany publicly condemned her for her remarks, calling her a "disgrace". Both governments characterized her comments as outright antisemitism. Her words included that the victims “were not killed because of their Judaism, but in response to Israel's oppression".

In 2022 she commented that the US was “subjugated by the Jewish lobby.” Her comments were denounced by the U.S. ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council and major watchdogs as reprehensible and incompatible with her role.

In 2023, a bipartisan group of 18 US Congress members formally called for her removal, citing persistent bias and inflammatory rhetoric.

Her behavior is beyond belief really, and reflect a consistent pattern of serious concern from democratic governments over her conduct and credibility/

What is chilling is that she was ever employed in the first place!!!

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 00:26

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 09/07/2025 21:21

There are indeed horrific abuses in places like Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan, and I agree they deserve attention and condemnation.

… but focusing on Israel and Palestine right now is not about ignoring those other tragedies; it’s about responding to an urgent, ongoing humanitarian catastrophe that is happening in real time- with weapons, funding, and political support from countries we live in and vote in.

Many people, including Humza Yousaf, have spoken out on other global injustices too but the scale, immediacy, and political entanglement of the situation in Gaza demands specific focus. Calling for a ceasefire or condemning mass displacement is not an endorsement of Hamas or any other oppressive regime. It’s a defence of basic civilian life.

If we demand consistency, then we should consistently stand for civilian protection and international law everywhere, including here.

I appreciate the attempt at nuance, but it misses the mark. Not least because he has been in prominent politics for sixteen years and never mentioned these things :)

Yes, Gaza is a humanitarian crisis -but the idea that this justifies an exclusive obsession with Israel, while barely acknowledging far worse, ongoing abuses across dozens of regimes, is exactly the inconsistency I’m pointing out.

Maybe he would be better served commenting on the human rights abuses actually happening in his native Pakistan today, rather than ones he is imagining that have not even happened.

I am sure he has his own reasons for his very special attention to condemning the one Jewish state.

1dayatatime · 10/07/2025 00:26

@Beachtastic

"I really think history will show that everyone jumping on Israel, thinking they are being liberal and kind, is unwittingly supporting a dangerous and insidious rise in fascism that they are utterly blind to."

I think history will show (or rather repeat itself from the 1970s) that a minority (but still a significant amount) of the self hate of the West left wing Western contingent will get even more entrenched and radicalised so that they will in the first instance become supporters of terrorist groups (we have already seen this with Palestine Action which hospitalised a female police officer with a sledgehammer). With some going on to become actual terrorists.

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 00:40

ssd · 09/07/2025 21:49

Humza Yousaf on twitter

"The erasure of women goes against everything Islam stands for. I stand in solidarity with the women of Afghanistan."

That was a quick Google. Pity you didn't try that before posting @ForgeOfEmpires

Oh, a tweet. Well done him!
🙄

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 00:46

MixedMetals · 09/07/2025 22:00

So it really makes you wonder: what is it about Israel, specifically, that offends him so much?

His family had to flee from Israels bombardment? His sister in laws house was flattened by them.

Speaking of his father in law he said
He’s now seen the entire land become decimated – seen his mum, his son, his grandchildren all become refugees again. And is powerless to do anything about it.
“He’s become a shell of a man, he was incredibly outgoing, sociable, energetic individual.
“Since those traumatic four weeks it’s had an impact on him and my mother-in-law from which I don’t think they’ll properly recover.”

What do you think 'offends' him about the situation so much? If a man with family who have had their home destroyed, who has seen his family left traumatised, had a frantic 4 weeks trying to get them safe passage out of Gaza can't even comment on it without snide insinuations of antisemitism and people asking 'why do you even care' I don't know who can? Some people are unbelievable.

Oh right, so he has a family connection to it then. Would you say he also has a family connection to Pakistan? It was lovely seeing him register a “Yousaf tartan” featuring green for Pakistan and blue for Scotland, symbolizing his dual heritage and wonderful that as Scotland’s First Minister that he met with Pakistan’s Prime Minister affirming ties in trade, education, and technology. I recall him sharing that.

I must have missed the bit where he mentioned forced child marriage, honour killings, mob lynchings over blasphemy accusations, systematic rape of women and girls, forced conversions of Hindu and Christian minors, routine torture of detainees, disappearances of journalists and activists, state-sanctioned persecution of Ahmadis and Shia Muslims, mass censorship, extrajudicial killings by security forces, bonded labour, caste-based discrimination, acid attacks, impunity for violence against women, and widespread judicial corruption.

Maybe he was just a little bit less worried about those things.

MixedMetals · 10/07/2025 00:59

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 00:46

Oh right, so he has a family connection to it then. Would you say he also has a family connection to Pakistan? It was lovely seeing him register a “Yousaf tartan” featuring green for Pakistan and blue for Scotland, symbolizing his dual heritage and wonderful that as Scotland’s First Minister that he met with Pakistan’s Prime Minister affirming ties in trade, education, and technology. I recall him sharing that.

I must have missed the bit where he mentioned forced child marriage, honour killings, mob lynchings over blasphemy accusations, systematic rape of women and girls, forced conversions of Hindu and Christian minors, routine torture of detainees, disappearances of journalists and activists, state-sanctioned persecution of Ahmadis and Shia Muslims, mass censorship, extrajudicial killings by security forces, bonded labour, caste-based discrimination, acid attacks, impunity for violence against women, and widespread judicial corruption.

Maybe he was just a little bit less worried about those things.

There is no way on this earth if someone had to aid their family in fleeing from Israel you would be here saying but why do they care? Not a chance, we both know it. You are making a fool of yourself.

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 01:10

MixedMetals · 10/07/2025 00:59

There is no way on this earth if someone had to aid their family in fleeing from Israel you would be here saying but why do they care? Not a chance, we both know it. You are making a fool of yourself.

We have established a reasonable explanation for why he cares. But why DOESN'T mention other things which go on in his native country? A heritage of which he is very vocal about?

Do those people not matter because they aren't his person family?

MixedMetals · 10/07/2025 01:50

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 01:10

We have established a reasonable explanation for why he cares. But why DOESN'T mention other things which go on in his native country? A heritage of which he is very vocal about?

Do those people not matter because they aren't his person family?

He has spoken about both the Israel Gaza conflict and the India Pakistan conflict.

It's great that you can see why he would feel the urge to speak on the conflict that left his family traumatised. Your empathy for them really shines through in your posts It must have been terrifying for Elizabeth and Maged to be trapped in Gaza for weeks. I'm sure seeing his traumatised father in law really brings into focus for him how horrifying it must be for those still in Gaza facing a future locked in an Israeli camp.

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 09:02

MixedMetals · 10/07/2025 01:50

He has spoken about both the Israel Gaza conflict and the India Pakistan conflict.

It's great that you can see why he would feel the urge to speak on the conflict that left his family traumatised. Your empathy for them really shines through in your posts It must have been terrifying for Elizabeth and Maged to be trapped in Gaza for weeks. I'm sure seeing his traumatised father in law really brings into focus for him how horrifying it must be for those still in Gaza facing a future locked in an Israeli camp.

Happy Birthday GIF by Gerbert!

Empathy for them doesn't translate to trashing Israel, does it? Empathy for them translates to trashing Hamas and encouraging Israel to ensure they can never di it again.

But we're stuck in a loop here as people seemingly are struggling with my "lack of Empathy" for Humza Yousefs wife's family, but not struggling with his lack of actions for the hundreds of thousands of victims of forced child marriage, honour killings, mob lynchings over blasphemy accusations, systematic rape of women and girls, forced conversions of Hindu and Christian minors, routine torture of detainees, disappearances of journalists and activists, state-sanctioned persecution of Ahmadis and Shia Muslims, mass censorship, extrajudicial killings by security forces, bonded labour, caste-based discrimination, acid attacks, impunity for violence against women, and widespread judicial corruption.

He's been trashing Israel for years.

Maybe he's just busy!

ssd · 10/07/2025 09:17

Israel is trashing itself @ForgeOfEmpires

It is looking so bad on the world stage right now

OP posts:
ssd · 10/07/2025 09:24

It seems to be irritating some posters here that anyone shows any sympathy to the people in Palestine . Whether that's me or a politician or anyone really. They immediately assume we don't care about any other conflict but Gaza. I really dont know why they assume that. It's very frustrating.

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 10/07/2025 09:42

ssd · 10/07/2025 09:24

It seems to be irritating some posters here that anyone shows any sympathy to the people in Palestine . Whether that's me or a politician or anyone really. They immediately assume we don't care about any other conflict but Gaza. I really dont know why they assume that. It's very frustrating.

We assume it in the cases of people where there is no evidence to the contrary. Show me the weekly marches, the high level pressure and weight of speeaches in parliament/s and queues of celebrities pronouncing and dozens of threads on mumsnet and I'll believe you.

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 09:45

ssd · 10/07/2025 09:17

Israel is trashing itself @ForgeOfEmpires

It is looking so bad on the world stage right now

Yes.

I find it quite fascinating that Pakistan was itself formed at roughly the same time in roughly the same way, in a partition that was undeniably on a much larger scale

15 million people were uprooted from their homes in the largest forced migration in human history. Up to two million were slaughtered, butchered in trains, fields, and villages by mobs. More than 75,000 women were raped, abducted, or forced into marriage, their lives shattered in acts of unspeakable violence. Entire cities emptied overnight, families torn in two, and homes-millions of them-burned, looted, or stolen.

But of course that is just filed under "shit happens" and we all manage to live in the present and accept two people's both wanted independence on the same land so it was split.

But today, now, in the present, Pakistan is a military hybrid regime with some of the nost brutal human rights violations in the world going on under your noses.

Blasphemy laws-some of the harshest in the world-are used to persecute religious minorities and silence dissent, often violently.

Girls, some as young as 9, are sold into marriage like cattle every year, with the law watching from the sidelines.

Over 1,000 women a year are butchered by their own families in honour killings.

Rape is a tool of power used from villages to police stations, and conviction is so rare it’s practically government policy.

Young Hindu girls are kidnapped, raped, and forced to become Muslim brides and nobody says a bloody word.

Beatings, electric shocks, and sexual assault are common interrogation techniques in a justice system that tortures first and asks questions never.

If you're a journalists or activist, speaking out means vanishing-one day you're critical, the next you're gone, and no one dares ask where.

State-sanctioned persecution of Ahmadis and Shia Muslims is normalised. Being the “wrong kind” of Muslim is a criminal offence, with mosques demolished, graves defaced, and believers jailed for existing.

The internet, TV, and newspapers are scrubbed of anything inconvenient to the army or the mullahs, turning truth into contraband.

Extrajudicial killings by security forces are well documented but ignored. The police and military execute people in staged shootouts, and call it justice while posing for photos.

Entire families, including children, are enslaved in brick kilns and farms for debts that grow bigger the longer they work.

Lower-caste citizens, especially Hindus, are treated as human garbage, denied jobs, justice, and dignity. This has been long classified as aparteid by NGOs but people prefer to imvent aparteid in other places.

Hundreds of women are melted alive in acid attacks each year by jealous lovers or rejected suitors who face little more than a slap on the wrist.

Impunity for violence against women is the cultural norm. Domestic violence, rape, and murder of women are treated as private matters, with victims often punished more harshly than perpetrators.

Widespread judicial corruption - In courtrooms across the country, justice is for sale, and the highest bidder writes the verdict.

"The world stage" is fascinating, is it not?

Oh we can give excuses and pretend men like Humza do it because of some personal involvement, but he's been doing it for 16 years before that too.

We can pretend people are just interested now because of the war, and some kind of immediate crisis but that's really just not true.

Malnutrition claims the lives of over 177,000 children under the age of five each year in Pakistan. Nearly 40 percent of young children are chronically malnourished and nearly 2 million at immediate risk of death.

He has the time to get his special Pakistan tartan made up but he can't open his fucking mouth about any of this.

The point here isn't humanitarianism or protecting starving kids or saving people from persecution. The point here really is using every shred of energy to demonise Israel, to paint it as evil in a way no other place is, to paint Palestinians as unfortunate in a way no other people are, and anyone who pretends it isnt antisemitism is honestly either a liar or in complete denial.

😐

Eatcakeplease · 10/07/2025 10:23

ssd · 10/07/2025 09:17

Israel is trashing itself @ForgeOfEmpires

It is looking so bad on the world stage right now

Israel is trashing itself on a spectacular scale. Many people who supported Israel at the start of the war have now seen what evil they are capable of. It's tragic really because they initially had alot of support. Now countries are discussing sanctioning Israel.

Twiglets1 · 10/07/2025 10:51

Eatcakeplease · 10/07/2025 10:23

Israel is trashing itself on a spectacular scale. Many people who supported Israel at the start of the war have now seen what evil they are capable of. It's tragic really because they initially had alot of support. Now countries are discussing sanctioning Israel.

What does it tell you about how they really feel when nearly 2 years on from Netanyahu declaring war and pledging that "the enemy will pay an unprecedented price,” other countries are still only "discussing sanctioning Israel".

It tells me that they think Netanyahu is going too far in his response. But that they don't really want to take action against Israel.

Eatcakeplease · 10/07/2025 10:58

Twiglets1 · 10/07/2025 10:51

What does it tell you about how they really feel when nearly 2 years on from Netanyahu declaring war and pledging that "the enemy will pay an unprecedented price,” other countries are still only "discussing sanctioning Israel".

It tells me that they think Netanyahu is going too far in his response. But that they don't really want to take action against Israel.

Maybe you are right, i don't profess to have all the answers but i can see a significant decrease in support from government officials. I am well aware they have lost alot of public support in Europe, i have seen numerous polls which indicate this.

I see more Israelis speaking out against their government's actions too. Not just normal Israelis but members of the defence force who feel Benjamin Netanyahu and his govenrnment are aimlessly prolonging the war.

1dayatatime · 10/07/2025 22:07

@ForgeOfEmpires

Another articulate and well informed post.

Thank you

Stripes56 · 10/07/2025 22:21

Twiglets1 · 10/07/2025 10:51

What does it tell you about how they really feel when nearly 2 years on from Netanyahu declaring war and pledging that "the enemy will pay an unprecedented price,” other countries are still only "discussing sanctioning Israel".

It tells me that they think Netanyahu is going too far in his response. But that they don't really want to take action against Israel.

But they are considering it and even the threat of this has led to action. They do think Israel has “gone too far”

An internal EU report raised (finally) concerns about war crimes by Israel. EU leaders start to consider legal implications for the EU Israel association agreement and suddenly EU and Israel are negotiating how to increase aid into Gaza!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/jun/20/eu-israel-human-rights-obligations-gaza-document

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/10/eu-and-israel-agree-substantial-aid-access-for-gaza

EU cites ‘indications’ Israel is breaching human rights obligations over conduct in Gaza

Leaked document marks significant moment in relations with ally but stops short of calling for immediate sanctions

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/jun/20/eu-israel-human-rights-obligations-gaza-document

ssd · 10/07/2025 22:31

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 09:45

Yes.

I find it quite fascinating that Pakistan was itself formed at roughly the same time in roughly the same way, in a partition that was undeniably on a much larger scale

15 million people were uprooted from their homes in the largest forced migration in human history. Up to two million were slaughtered, butchered in trains, fields, and villages by mobs. More than 75,000 women were raped, abducted, or forced into marriage, their lives shattered in acts of unspeakable violence. Entire cities emptied overnight, families torn in two, and homes-millions of them-burned, looted, or stolen.

But of course that is just filed under "shit happens" and we all manage to live in the present and accept two people's both wanted independence on the same land so it was split.

But today, now, in the present, Pakistan is a military hybrid regime with some of the nost brutal human rights violations in the world going on under your noses.

Blasphemy laws-some of the harshest in the world-are used to persecute religious minorities and silence dissent, often violently.

Girls, some as young as 9, are sold into marriage like cattle every year, with the law watching from the sidelines.

Over 1,000 women a year are butchered by their own families in honour killings.

Rape is a tool of power used from villages to police stations, and conviction is so rare it’s practically government policy.

Young Hindu girls are kidnapped, raped, and forced to become Muslim brides and nobody says a bloody word.

Beatings, electric shocks, and sexual assault are common interrogation techniques in a justice system that tortures first and asks questions never.

If you're a journalists or activist, speaking out means vanishing-one day you're critical, the next you're gone, and no one dares ask where.

State-sanctioned persecution of Ahmadis and Shia Muslims is normalised. Being the “wrong kind” of Muslim is a criminal offence, with mosques demolished, graves defaced, and believers jailed for existing.

The internet, TV, and newspapers are scrubbed of anything inconvenient to the army or the mullahs, turning truth into contraband.

Extrajudicial killings by security forces are well documented but ignored. The police and military execute people in staged shootouts, and call it justice while posing for photos.

Entire families, including children, are enslaved in brick kilns and farms for debts that grow bigger the longer they work.

Lower-caste citizens, especially Hindus, are treated as human garbage, denied jobs, justice, and dignity. This has been long classified as aparteid by NGOs but people prefer to imvent aparteid in other places.

Hundreds of women are melted alive in acid attacks each year by jealous lovers or rejected suitors who face little more than a slap on the wrist.

Impunity for violence against women is the cultural norm. Domestic violence, rape, and murder of women are treated as private matters, with victims often punished more harshly than perpetrators.

Widespread judicial corruption - In courtrooms across the country, justice is for sale, and the highest bidder writes the verdict.

"The world stage" is fascinating, is it not?

Oh we can give excuses and pretend men like Humza do it because of some personal involvement, but he's been doing it for 16 years before that too.

We can pretend people are just interested now because of the war, and some kind of immediate crisis but that's really just not true.

Malnutrition claims the lives of over 177,000 children under the age of five each year in Pakistan. Nearly 40 percent of young children are chronically malnourished and nearly 2 million at immediate risk of death.

He has the time to get his special Pakistan tartan made up but he can't open his fucking mouth about any of this.

The point here isn't humanitarianism or protecting starving kids or saving people from persecution. The point here really is using every shred of energy to demonise Israel, to paint it as evil in a way no other place is, to paint Palestinians as unfortunate in a way no other people are, and anyone who pretends it isnt antisemitism is honestly either a liar or in complete denial.

😐

No, the point is Pakistan doesn't have the same respect and authority on the worlds stage as Israel has always had....its not seen as on the same page as Israel. Israel was seen as more westernised and democratic.
But now Israel has gone way down in most peoples estimation due to how it has behaved since Oct 7th.

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 10/07/2025 22:57

ssd · 10/07/2025 22:31

No, the point is Pakistan doesn't have the same respect and authority on the worlds stage as Israel has always had....its not seen as on the same page as Israel. Israel was seen as more westernised and democratic.
But now Israel has gone way down in most peoples estimation due to how it has behaved since Oct 7th.

What are YOU doing to help release Palestinians from the tyranny of Hamas?

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 23:30

ssd · 10/07/2025 22:31

No, the point is Pakistan doesn't have the same respect and authority on the worlds stage as Israel has always had....its not seen as on the same page as Israel. Israel was seen as more westernised and democratic.
But now Israel has gone way down in most peoples estimation due to how it has behaved since Oct 7th.

People should only speak up on child marriage, forced conversion of children, rape, honour killings, forced disappearances, state murders, slavery, apartheid and violence against women if the country has enough respect and authority on the world stage?

What's the bar here?

Is there a list of respected countries where we care about what happens and shit ones where we don't?

Baffled here.

Comedycook · 11/07/2025 05:39

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 23:30

People should only speak up on child marriage, forced conversion of children, rape, honour killings, forced disappearances, state murders, slavery, apartheid and violence against women if the country has enough respect and authority on the world stage?

What's the bar here?

Is there a list of respected countries where we care about what happens and shit ones where we don't?

Baffled here.

Exactly...The mental gymnastics is quite something!

SharonEllis · 11/07/2025 05:42

ForgeOfEmpires · 10/07/2025 23:30

People should only speak up on child marriage, forced conversion of children, rape, honour killings, forced disappearances, state murders, slavery, apartheid and violence against women if the country has enough respect and authority on the world stage?

What's the bar here?

Is there a list of respected countries where we care about what happens and shit ones where we don't?

Baffled here.

There is a special rule which absolves us from caring about what other countries do but also means we have to obsess about Israel above all others. What could it be?

SharonEllis · 11/07/2025 05:44

ssd · 10/07/2025 22:31

No, the point is Pakistan doesn't have the same respect and authority on the worlds stage as Israel has always had....its not seen as on the same page as Israel. Israel was seen as more westernised and democratic.
But now Israel has gone way down in most peoples estimation due to how it has behaved since Oct 7th.

Have you thought this through? I mean, really?

mids2019 · 11/07/2025 06:49

I find these threads fascinating as I think some wish for an echo chamber where people can share hyperbolic claims about Israel without argument.....in fact why not lobby MN to change the name of this section to 'genocide in Gaza'?

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