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Conflict in the Middle East
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18
Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 19:43

"This will now call into question the credibility of statements issued by the IDF. There will be serious questions about the rules of engagement Israeli soldiers are operating under and the morality of IDF commanders in Gaza."

Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 19:43

While genuine incidents of misidentification do happen in war, and deaths of innocents are sadly inevitable, the information given by the IDF following this incident suggests a cover-up somewhere along the chain.
Firstly Israeli soldiers opened fire on a convoy of vehicles that were clearly ambulances; secondly the bodies were buried in a mass grave and access denied to the UN for five days, and then the statements issued contradict the facts as we now know them.

Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 19:50

And finally:

"This will now call into question the credibility of statements issued by the IDF. There will be serious questions about the rules of engagement Israeli soldiers are operating under and the morality of IDF commanders in Gaza."

Let the world see the most immoral army in the world for what they are. Murdering scum.

Polka83 · 05/04/2025 19:58

Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 19:42

Sky news have finally caught on that the IDF not only lie but elaborately covet up their war crimes. They are now rightly questioning what other crimes they have lied and covered up about in Gaza.

https://news.sky.com/story/new-video-undermines-israels-account-of-aid-worker-deaths-and-suggests-cover-up-somewhere-along-chain-13342615

Quite
Like all the 20 out of 22 hospitals the IDF destroyed in Northern Gaza were due to Hamas soldiers using the hospitals as bases. There’s been no clear evidence.
Why should we believe the IDF?

edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/

Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 20:00

Polka83 · 05/04/2025 19:58

Quite
Like all the 20 out of 22 hospitals the IDF destroyed in Northern Gaza were due to Hamas soldiers using the hospitals as bases. There’s been no clear evidence.
Why should we believe the IDF?

edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/

Or how as the article also pointed out that over a hundred journalists were killed which were mostly also called 'Hamas members' with little to no proof ever shown for these allegations.

BelleHathor · 05/04/2025 20:56

Whatsinanamehey · 05/04/2025 19:50

And finally:

"This will now call into question the credibility of statements issued by the IDF. There will be serious questions about the rules of engagement Israeli soldiers are operating under and the morality of IDF commanders in Gaza."

Let the world see the most immoral army in the world for what they are. Murdering scum.

This tweet sums it up, it lists all the untruths unquestionably amplified by the MSM, who arguably are just as instrumental by blindly repeating the IDFs talking points in contributing to the dehumanisation that has allowed these crimes against humanity to continue:
"Israel: “I know we lied about the ambulance workers,
Shifa hospital,
flour massacre,
beheaded babies,
Hamad hospital,
Hind Rajab,
the ‘terror LIST’ (days of the week),
World Central Kitchen workers,
babies in ovens,
white phosphorus,
deliberately starving Gazans,
Sinwar surrounding himself with 20 hostages in a tunnel,
gassing hostages,
Ahli hospital,
killing women & children with white flags, mass r@ping Palestinians,
non-existent tunnels under graveyards, Nasir hospital,
Husam Abu Safia,
mass graves,
snipers targeting kids in the head, providing protection to criminal gangs to loot aid,
wiping out Gaza,
who refused/collapsed the ceasefire, blowing up Gazans fleeing south,
Kamal Adwan hospital,
claiming dead Gazan children are dolls, creating 'safe zones',
the generals plan,
how many Hamas militants we killed,
Red Crescent taking part in Oct 7,
calling killed journalists Hamas ‘militants’, Muhammad Abu Salmiya,
the Indonesian hospital,
UNRWA,
al-Awda hospital,
killing women sheltering at a church, bombing the church,
destroying every single Gazan university, the Turkish cancer hospital,
Hamas hiding giant stockpiles of fuel in Rafah,
finding active smuggling tunnels in Rafah, hostages returning pregnant,
who killed Yossi Sharabi, Itai Svirsky, Nik Beizer, Ron Sherman, Elia Toledano…

But.. but our next lie will be 100% true, trust us”

https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1908548522489552933

https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1908548522489552933

EasterIssland · 05/04/2025 21:24

They also lied about who killed Shireen Abu Akleh

OP posts:
NoviceVillager · 05/04/2025 21:36

It’s horrifying. I can’t imagine how brave you have to be, to be a paramedic in the middle of the war, heading out into gunfire. One ambulance driver had been shot twice on two separate occasions. They deserved so much better than to be executed (acknowledging there is footage of part of this but it isn’t proven yet).

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 05/04/2025 22:41

kirinm · 05/04/2025 18:39

i assume that poster who claims everyone is bias for doubting the IDF will come back and acknowledge that there’s maybe a reason to doubt the IDF and believe Palestinians.

I doubt they would, although it would be nice.

Contentment1628 · 05/04/2025 22:48

Electing a proscribed terrorist organisation as your government rarely ends well.

EasterIssland · 06/04/2025 06:08

EasterIssland · 02/04/2025 18:58

  1. We didn’t do anything wrong
  2. It was a mistake. We are sorry about it and we will try and not repeat it again.
  3. They were terrorists.

one of them will be the answer

Oh option2. What a surprise. Not.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0xp969n69o

A still from the video that shows an ambulance in Gaza

Israel admits mistakes over medic killings in Gaza

Israeli forces shot dead 15 emergency workers in a convoy of ambulances near Rafah on 23 March.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0xp969n69o

OP posts:
Audhdmum · 06/04/2025 06:15

Mistake? It was mass murder! Again.

ScrollingLeaves · 07/04/2025 10:08

VaVaVaVaVroom · 03/04/2025 09:14

You are all assuming this guy’s account is true. You are assuming that automatically and without question, probably because that’s the way your bias takes you.

Now it might be true, but it might not. If it isn’t true, the IDFs comments are legitimate. We know that unfortunately Hamas are not above embedding themselves in UNWRA or healthcare facilities. If it is true, it’s an appalling error or a war crime.

You are all assuming this guy’s account is true. You are assuming that automatically and without question, probably because that’s the way your bias takes you.

I would have thought that by now there is another bias that ought to be questioned - that is that Israel/the IDF is honourable and never lies.

Israeli news Haaretz April 5
Headline and first paragraphs (without links or video).

Video of Killing of Gaza Aid Workers Shows Ambulance Lights Were On, Despite IDF Claims
After 15 Palestinian rescue workers were found in a mass grave, a video obtained by The New York Times shows Gazan ambulances with their emergency lights on under intense gunfire. The IDF claimed that several vehicles had approached the soldiers 'suspiciously' without emergency signals

A video obtained by the New York Times, found on the mobile phone of a paramedic whose body was discovered in a mass grave alongside 15 aid workers killed by Israeli gunfire in Gaza on March 23, shows that, contrary to Israel's claims, the ambulances and fire trucks carrying the workers were clearly marked and had their emergency lights on when Israeli forces fired at them

An IDF spokesman had previously said that Israeli forces did not "randomly attack" an ambulance and that some vehicles "were identified as moving suspiciously" without lights or emergency signals towards the soldiers – who then fired in response.

The video was provided by a senior UN diplomat who requested anonymity and had a verified location and timestamp, The New York Times said.

Israeli officials really, really do lie. This was a massacre.

ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2025 11:02

That is a very interesting audio analysis from BBC Verify about the IDF shooting tge 15 medics from verify, and it shows not only the IDF lie that no Red Cross ambulance lights had been on, but also reveals that the IDF also lied in saying they had fired from a long distance.

What do we know for sure about some of the medics having been bound before being shot (or am I muddling that)?

Mylegishangingoff · 11/04/2025 12:36

I read this article the other day and thought that it was a lovely tribute to the murdered aid workers.

I write to bear witness to the incredible nature of these men – to their love, their kindness, their gentleness and their goodness. We stop seeing people’s humanity very quickly in war of any description, and even more so in mass slaughter or indeed genocide. Erasure requires such forgetting.
I watched the men of the PRCS work hard and effectively. I sat with them between patients, listening to lyrical conversation and wondering at their upbeat spirts. In more private candid moments they would explain, what choice did they have? They needed to stay positive enough to be upright each day, to continue the work. They were tired, they were scared, but they continued.

www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2025/apr/08/i-knew-some-of-the-paramedics-killed-in-gaza-as-humanitarian-workers-we-are-drowning-in-grief-ntwnfb

ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2025 19:46

The last words of the paramedic who took the video too cannot but be haunting and a testament to their lives..

He had just wanted to help he explained to his mother, and he and his colleagues had helped.

LoremIpsumCici · 11/04/2025 19:55

Contentment1628 · 05/04/2025 22:48

Electing a proscribed terrorist organisation as your government rarely ends well.

Huh? Hamas seized the Gaza Strip by force in 2007.

They were proscribed by the UK in 2021.

There haven’t been any elections (rigged or legitimate) in Gaza since 2006.

LoremIpsumCici · 11/04/2025 19:58

The blatant atrocity should be resulting in further condemnation.
In a way, I do think it tipped President Macron of France into announcing they will recognise Palestine as a State by June of this year.

bdot86 · 14/04/2025 15:22

Contentment1628 · 05/04/2025 22:48

Electing a proscribed terrorist organisation as your government rarely ends well.

You say “electing” Hamas but the Palestinians have not had a democratic election in nearly 20 years. The last one was in 2006, and since then, Israel and the Palestinian Authority have both played roles in suppressing elections. So the idea that today’s civilians “chose” this is a distortion of reality. And even if they did… If we justify the bombing of civilians because of who governs them, does that mean Russians “deserve” to be bombed because they “elected” Putin? Israelis deserve to be bombed because of Netanyahu ? Do Americans deserve drone strikes because they voted for Trump? This kind of logic opens the door to endless war crimes and completely erodes the idea of human rights.

Please let me know if this is what you mean by your comment. Because I’m getting “ well .. they asked tor it” vibes. Gross.

tamade · 18/04/2025 01:28

VaVaVaVaVroom · 03/04/2025 09:14

You are all assuming this guy’s account is true. You are assuming that automatically and without question, probably because that’s the way your bias takes you.

Now it might be true, but it might not. If it isn’t true, the IDFs comments are legitimate. We know that unfortunately Hamas are not above embedding themselves in UNWRA or healthcare facilities. If it is true, it’s an appalling error or a war crime.

We should all be skeptical to a degree, but we don't need to rely on the witness's account:
The IDF claim the convoy was suspicious so they shot it up; OK, horrible but logical. So how did the medics get tied up and shot at close range? Why were they buried in shallow graves? Observations are incompatible with the IDF's version of events. What can't speak can't lie.

ExitPursuedByAPolarBear · 18/04/2025 02:33

VaVaVaVaVroom · 03/04/2025 11:40

If they pose an immediate threat then shooting them is permitted. Obviously someone bound is unlikely to pose an immediate threat and we get back to the question of whether it’s true that they were bound and/or shot at close range.

@VaVaVaVaVroom Are you saying that it’s permitted to shoot at clearly marked ambulances? You’re questioning the validity of a survivor’s testimony. So who would you actually believe?

ExitPursuedByAPolarBear · 18/04/2025 02:38

@LoremIpsumCici Have you seen what’s happened to Gaza or the rest of Palestine lately? There’s settler violence taking place in the West Bank that can’t be blamed on Hamas. When exactly are the Palestinians expected to hold elections and how? Did you know that Ukraine also has not held an election since the war began? The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, have little to no legal recourse, are constantly being displaced, attacked in their own homes, but they’re stuck between Hamas and the IDF. And you have Bibi Netyanhu who is wanted for war crimes.

Why hasn’t Ukraine held elections since the war began?

Donald Trump has increased his attacks on Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calling the Ukrainian president ‘a dictator’ – but why have elections been postponed?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/20/ukraine-elections-start-of-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy

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