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Conflict in the Middle East

Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

729 replies

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 19:33

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

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BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:46

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:44

i thought we were talking about Islamophobia in the UK? I can't speak for Iranian laws but being a British Muslim I can help answer any concerns you may have coming across an oppressed women who can't speak in the UK. Actually if you were to come across one please let me know and I will signpost her to the correct agency if you are unable to see the signs of domestic abuse, which is what I think your initial post refers to in regards to not having a voice.

I never specified it was about Islamophobia in the UK, it's a worldwide issue, surely?

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BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:46

FairyBlueEyes · 22/02/2025 23:26

I also saw small girls from Muslim families at my daughter's primary school, covered head to toe, which I thought was a form of abuse as they couldn't run around and climb in their full-length skirts.

This is what I don’t understand, if these women cover themselves to protect their modesty against the gaze of men, why do little girls have to be covered up?

For the same reason.

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WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:46

InWalksBarberalla · 22/02/2025 23:45

How does it not sadden you? From 13 or so she can't feel the sun on her face, see the world clearly, jump in the pool, swim in the beach. But can sit on the sidelines and watch her brother through a veil.

Because it doesn't? And this is from someone who is Muslim who doesn't veil up.

InWalksBarberalla · 22/02/2025 23:48

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:44

i thought we were talking about Islamophobia in the UK? I can't speak for Iranian laws but being a British Muslim I can help answer any concerns you may have coming across an oppressed women who can't speak in the UK. Actually if you were to come across one please let me know and I will signpost her to the correct agency if you are unable to see the signs of domestic abuse, which is what I think your initial post refers to in regards to not having a voice.

Where does the OP mention UK? This website is based in the UK but many posters live elsewhere. And when discussing Islam it's important to look at issues with a worldwide view.

peanutbuttertoasty · 22/02/2025 23:48

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/02/2025 23:45

Having read your posts so far @BaMamma , I think you are Islamophobic as you come across as hostile and prejudiced towards Muslims.

You have said I don't see <<insert positive Muslim things>> a number of times. No offence, but that's on you. You want to know how Islam is a force for good? Look it up. It's a massive, global religion with over a billion followers. It must be getting something right.

As for the nonsense that criticism of the Taliban is Islamophobic. Seriously? Right thinking people all over the world find what is happening to women in Afganistan abhorrent. Including millions of Muslims. Even millions of Muslims in Afganistan.

It’s a club that people are forced to join on pain of death, and forbidden to leave on pain of death. That probably helps the numbers a bit. Not a ringing endorsement.

SummerFeverVenice · 22/02/2025 23:49

FairyBlueEyes · 22/02/2025 23:42

Thank fuck we live in a country where girls can ‘put all their bits on display’ as much as they like and have no fear of being stoned to death by not covering up. Long may it continue.

I want this to be a country where women have the legal right to put as many or as few bits on display as they want to. Apparently you only care about girls being as naked as possible…doesn’t seem to benefit the girls as much as men looking 👀

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/02/2025 23:49

Alphavilla · 22/02/2025 23:23

I fucking hate the degradation of women in Afghanistan and Iran. Does this make me an islamophobe?

No. It makes you the same as most Muslims.

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:49

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:38

Why does it sadden you? I just don't understand the sadness. Well maybe I do actually. When I see tween/teen girls/adult females wearing hot pants/ skimpy bikinis dressing sexualised well beyond their years that saddens me when men don't need to do that or feel it necessary to put all their bits on display so I guess I can empathise.

There was no suggestion that the girls were wearing sexualized clothing, the concern was that they would soon have to cover themselves completely.

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WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:50

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:46

I never specified it was about Islamophobia in the UK, it's a worldwide issue, surely?

I'd say Islamophobia (if your asking) is the irrational fear of Muslims but just add in negative stereotypes a sprinkle of judgement, or maybe a handful actually based on what the media often portray, without making any effort to actually speak to a Muslim to give the brain an opportunity to correct said fear. Or something to this affect.

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:51

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:46

Because it doesn't? And this is from someone who is Muslim who doesn't veil up.

Is that because you just don't think about it? How can it not bother you, as a woman, to see other women oppressed?

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InWalksBarberalla · 22/02/2025 23:52

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/02/2025 23:45

Having read your posts so far @BaMamma , I think you are Islamophobic as you come across as hostile and prejudiced towards Muslims.

You have said I don't see <<insert positive Muslim things>> a number of times. No offence, but that's on you. You want to know how Islam is a force for good? Look it up. It's a massive, global religion with over a billion followers. It must be getting something right.

As for the nonsense that criticism of the Taliban is Islamophobic. Seriously? Right thinking people all over the world find what is happening to women in Afganistan abhorrent. Including millions of Muslims. Even millions of Muslims in Afganistan.

You have said I don't see <<insert positive Muslim things>> a number of times. No offence, but that's on you. You want to know how Islam is a force for good? Look it up. It's a massive, global religion with over a billion followers. It must be getting something right.

Then explain why their is mass immigration from majority Muslim countries to non majority Muslim countries and never the other way around if it's such a force for good.

Dinnerplease · 22/02/2025 23:52

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you don't have 'western values'. Argh. I had assumed this thread had been started in good faith but it's quite clear it hasn't.

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:54

Dinnerplease · 22/02/2025 23:52

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you don't have 'western values'. Argh. I had assumed this thread had been started in good faith but it's quite clear it hasn't.

Where did that come from?

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WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:54

FairyBlueEyes · 22/02/2025 23:42

Thank fuck we live in a country where girls can ‘put all their bits on display’ as much as they like and have no fear of being stoned to death by not covering up. Long may it continue.

we agree?! No1 should be stoned or judged or pitied for having bits on display and equally no1 should be pitied or judged for choosing not to have their bits on display.

peanutbuttertoasty · 22/02/2025 23:56

Dinnerplease · 22/02/2025 23:52

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you don't have 'western values'. Argh. I had assumed this thread had been started in good faith but it's quite clear it hasn't.

Does it have western values? What if you’re gay? Or fancy wearing a bikini on the beach? Or you want to have sex with whoever you like.

Perhaps there are cultural affinities but they don’t get any press. What are they?

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:56

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:51

Is that because you just don't think about it? How can it not bother you, as a woman, to see other women oppressed?

Because I know it's not oppression maybe? I tell you who I do empathise for women who are subjected to abuse be it emotional physical mental or financial. And maybe this maybe in the form of being forced to adhere to a religion but you will never know unless you speak to them?

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:57

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:56

Because I know it's not oppression maybe? I tell you who I do empathise for women who are subjected to abuse be it emotional physical mental or financial. And maybe this maybe in the form of being forced to adhere to a religion but you will never know unless you speak to them?

You don't see being covered up as a form of oppression?

If it's for 'protection' from men's roving eyes, maybe they should cover their eyes?

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FairyBlueEyes · 23/02/2025 00:00

It's a massive, global religion with over a billion followers. It must be getting something right.

🤫 don’t mention the Christians being murdered in Nigeria, the Congo etc etc. They are certainly, shall we say, very persuasive.

InWalksBarberalla · 23/02/2025 00:00

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:56

Because I know it's not oppression maybe? I tell you who I do empathise for women who are subjected to abuse be it emotional physical mental or financial. And maybe this maybe in the form of being forced to adhere to a religion but you will never know unless you speak to them?

Quite difficult to strike up a conversation with a woman when you can't even make eye contact with them.

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/02/2025 00:04

InWalksBarberalla · 22/02/2025 23:52

You have said I don't see <<insert positive Muslim things>> a number of times. No offence, but that's on you. You want to know how Islam is a force for good? Look it up. It's a massive, global religion with over a billion followers. It must be getting something right.

Then explain why their is mass immigration from majority Muslim countries to non majority Muslim countries and never the other way around if it's such a force for good.

You don't have to move country to become a Muslim.

Fifiworks · 23/02/2025 00:04

peanutbuttertoasty · 22/02/2025 23:27

They do a pretty good job of that themselves TBF

It very much feels like a problem we do not need.

if you grew up in a Muslim majority area and you know many Muslims- how many terrorists did you meet?

Anyway. Yes you are Islamophobic. Your attitude definitely meets that line.

Alphavilla · 23/02/2025 00:05

WhoevenamIinlife · 22/02/2025 23:44

i thought we were talking about Islamophobia in the UK? I can't speak for Iranian laws but being a British Muslim I can help answer any concerns you may have coming across an oppressed women who can't speak in the UK. Actually if you were to come across one please let me know and I will signpost her to the correct agency if you are unable to see the signs of domestic abuse, which is what I think your initial post refers to in regards to not having a voice.

My concern is the potential for sharia law to be practiced in Britain. The possibility of blasphemy laws in Britain. Death threats or violence for drawing Mohammed. Death or violence for burning the Koran. Loss of freedom of speech. Indoctrination. Oppression of women. Yes I know British Muslims are not so oppressed as.Afghan women, but the prospect of it coming is truly frightening.

SallyWD · 23/02/2025 00:06

Alphavilla · 23/02/2025 00:05

My concern is the potential for sharia law to be practiced in Britain. The possibility of blasphemy laws in Britain. Death threats or violence for drawing Mohammed. Death or violence for burning the Koran. Loss of freedom of speech. Indoctrination. Oppression of women. Yes I know British Muslims are not so oppressed as.Afghan women, but the prospect of it coming is truly frightening.

It's not going to happen so you can stop worrying.

WhoevenamIinlife · 23/02/2025 00:06

BaMamma · 22/02/2025 23:57

You don't see being covered up as a form of oppression?

If it's for 'protection' from men's roving eyes, maybe they should cover their eyes?

Well let me educate you my friend.

There are rules for men and women in terms of modesty.

Men to grow a beard, lower their gaze and wear lose baggy clothing that does not define their good bits.

Women to cover their hair and wear lost clothing again not to define their good bits. Oh and to lower their gaze.

Children in a home who adhere to these rules will often follow suit - it can be visibly seen in girls more than in boys at a young age due to the beard issue. Come to think of it most men can't grow beards properly.

Like in most families whatever parents model becomes normal to that child be it dressing, reading, religion, athletic, eating habits etc.

So if a child wants to model religious covering to look like said parent - why is that a huge concern?

Unfortunately what we do see often is religious values differing in partners - one may cover up adherence to the rules and obligations while the other may decide to do the opposite but if the female is the one who follows the religions more closely how is that oppression??

I grew up in a household where my mum would wear the full covering, I didn't. My father disliked it. He wanted it off my mother and discouraged me from wearing it. I guess he had more experience of racism than I had at that point. But if my mum was indeed oppressed she would have taken the veil off as that's what my father wanted. But she didn't. She did what she wanted and kept it on.

SallyWD · 23/02/2025 00:09

WhoevenamIinlife · 23/02/2025 00:06

Well let me educate you my friend.

There are rules for men and women in terms of modesty.

Men to grow a beard, lower their gaze and wear lose baggy clothing that does not define their good bits.

Women to cover their hair and wear lost clothing again not to define their good bits. Oh and to lower their gaze.

Children in a home who adhere to these rules will often follow suit - it can be visibly seen in girls more than in boys at a young age due to the beard issue. Come to think of it most men can't grow beards properly.

Like in most families whatever parents model becomes normal to that child be it dressing, reading, religion, athletic, eating habits etc.

So if a child wants to model religious covering to look like said parent - why is that a huge concern?

Unfortunately what we do see often is religious values differing in partners - one may cover up adherence to the rules and obligations while the other may decide to do the opposite but if the female is the one who follows the religions more closely how is that oppression??

I grew up in a household where my mum would wear the full covering, I didn't. My father disliked it. He wanted it off my mother and discouraged me from wearing it. I guess he had more experience of racism than I had at that point. But if my mum was indeed oppressed she would have taken the veil off as that's what my father wanted. But she didn't. She did what she wanted and kept it on.

Yes my Muslim friend wears a hijab. Her husband would prefer it if she didn't but she wants to. People fail to realise that sometimes the women are even more devout than the men.