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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do Palestinian refugees have a separate refugee agency?

318 replies

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

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herecomesautumn · 22/10/2024 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Why? It's neither nasty nor goady

Can you answer the OP?

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 12:54

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 12:33

This doesnt address my point though. My point is that people keep asking why isn't Gaza thriving, where does all the aid money go, why haven't they built any infrastructure, why should Israel care when Palestinians don't even care enough to help themselves completely ignoring the billions of damage Israel cause to civillians infrastructure. If the essentials are being blown up every time you build them how can you ever progress past the essentials and move to a place where you are thriving. Why are so many posters ignoring the role that Israel have played in keeping Gaza under developed. The narrative seems to be that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and have had no responsibility for anything that has happened in Gaza since, it's not Israels fault that Hamas haven't decided to build any infrastructure completely omitting that infrastructure has been repeatedly built and then destroyed.

Obviously it makes you question why people are so hell bent on telling half a story that portrays Palestinians as undeveloped people, willing to live in an undeveloped place because they don't care enough about themselves to build anything when clearly that isn't the case or there wouldn't be billions of dollars of infrastructure for Israel to repeatedly destroy.

Edited

Well said.

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 15:10

Dulra · 22/10/2024 08:45

Hamas on the other hand openly admits it expects UNWRA to look after its population
I will take your word for this but if you had a link to it I would be interested in reading it. Hamas are a terrorist organisation and like most similar organisations I am sure they are well embedded in the criminal and drug underworld to support and finance their activities and lifestyles.

You can look up the 100s of millions that go to UNWRA though.
What is the purpose of this comment? Whether you mean to or not it feels like you don't think UNWRA should be receiving this funding to support and sustain people in Gaza? Whether we like it or not the blockade and a useless governing body does mean support is needed like it is in many countries that we provide humanitarian assistence to. Their infrastructure has been continually destroyed for decades it costs a lot to rebuild, Gaza is now pretty much flattened with nearly every piece of infrastructure required to sustain a population, never mind enable them to flourish and thrive, is destroyed, so billions upon billons will now be needed to rebuild.

Very obviously a point about transparency and accountability. Democratic states publish who they give aid to (including unwra) and receive aid from. Terrorists and their non-democratic backers dont.

Daftasabroom · 22/10/2024 15:23

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 15:10

Very obviously a point about transparency and accountability. Democratic states publish who they give aid to (including unwra) and receive aid from. Terrorists and their non-democratic backers dont.

Would you be able to post details on the aid Israel receives please?

Dulra · 22/10/2024 15:29

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 15:10

Very obviously a point about transparency and accountability. Democratic states publish who they give aid to (including unwra) and receive aid from. Terrorists and their non-democratic backers dont.

Probably not wise to speak of transparency and accountability in the context of Israel when Netanyahu is standing trial on corruption charges but yes obviously terrorist organisations are neither transparent or financially accountable

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 15:34

Daftasabroom · 22/10/2024 15:23

Would you be able to post details on the aid Israel receives please?

Can you not google?

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 16:31

Dulra · 22/10/2024 15:29

Probably not wise to speak of transparency and accountability in the context of Israel when Netanyahu is standing trial on corruption charges but yes obviously terrorist organisations are neither transparent or financially accountable

Its a measure of a democracy that people who break the rules around transparency, corruption etc have to account for themselves in court. Which is what is happening.

Dulra · 22/10/2024 16:56

SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 16:31

Its a measure of a democracy that people who break the rules around transparency, corruption etc have to account for themselves in court. Which is what is happening.

Let's hope we see him one day in the ICC and back in court in December to answer his corruption charges.

I don't think Israel is a beacon of democracy at the moment to be fair as the war crimes mount up.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 17:29

This has rather devolved into a tit for tat over whether Israel or Hamas has more responsibility for the conditions in Gaza.

How about reframing the original question as:

Is there a rational reason not to absorb UNWRA into the UNCHR which has responsibility for all other refugees worldwide?

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Lolapusht · 22/10/2024 17:59

Dulra · 22/10/2024 15:29

Probably not wise to speak of transparency and accountability in the context of Israel when Netanyahu is standing trial on corruption charges but yes obviously terrorist organisations are neither transparent or financially accountable

Sinwar was known as the Butcher of Khan Younis. He was known for killing and torturing with his bare hands. Maybe try and do a bit of both-siding

Lolapusht · 22/10/2024 18:00

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

Oh, and just for clarity, Sinwar got his moniker for killing Palestinians

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:10

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 17:29

This has rather devolved into a tit for tat over whether Israel or Hamas has more responsibility for the conditions in Gaza.

How about reframing the original question as:

Is there a rational reason not to absorb UNWRA into the UNCHR which has responsibility for all other refugees worldwide?

Bit weird that you literally asked Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they left behind infrastructure behind that was destroyed by the people and by Hamas.
Hamas have been in charge that whole time, what have they built for their people? then seem completely unable to discuss it. And it's not a tit for tat because as usual there is a complete inability from some posters to accept that Israel may have any form of responsibility.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:14

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:10

Bit weird that you literally asked Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they left behind infrastructure behind that was destroyed by the people and by Hamas.
Hamas have been in charge that whole time, what have they built for their people? then seem completely unable to discuss it. And it's not a tit for tat because as usual there is a complete inability from some posters to accept that Israel may have any form of responsibility.

Edited

If you can't answer the question, just say so.

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GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:15

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:14

If you can't answer the question, just say so.

Lol. That's rich. Why don't you go back and answer the question I asked you instead of trying to change the topic when your rhetoric is challenged?

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:30

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:15

Lol. That's rich. Why don't you go back and answer the question I asked you instead of trying to change the topic when your rhetoric is challenged?

Er, I started this thread to ask about UNWRA, that's the topic; do you think it should be absorbed into the UNHCR?

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Dulra · 22/10/2024 18:33

Lolapusht · 22/10/2024 17:59

Sinwar was known as the Butcher of Khan Younis. He was known for killing and torturing with his bare hands. Maybe try and do a bit of both-siding

I am well aware of how horrific Sinwar was I had already referenced Hamas in a previous post not sure why you think everyone should have to reference how bad Hamas are when making a point about Israel.

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:36

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:30

Er, I started this thread to ask about UNWRA, that's the topic; do you think it should be absorbed into the UNHCR?

Mmm hmm. Still can't answer can you.

No, I don't. I support Unwra and think they do really valuable work. The fact that the Israeli government and their supporters want them closed down only serves to further convince me of how valuable they are to the well being of Palestinians.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:46

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:36

Mmm hmm. Still can't answer can you.

No, I don't. I support Unwra and think they do really valuable work. The fact that the Israeli government and their supporters want them closed down only serves to further convince me of how valuable they are to the well being of Palestinians.

Well done! You almost answered the question. You haven't explained why the Palestinians need a separate agency to the rest of the entire world's refugee population, but maybe that's just because there isn't a rational answer.

If you want to ask your own question, you can start a new thread. Go for it.

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GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:59

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 18:46

Well done! You almost answered the question. You haven't explained why the Palestinians need a separate agency to the rest of the entire world's refugee population, but maybe that's just because there isn't a rational answer.

If you want to ask your own question, you can start a new thread. Go for it.

I answered the question you directly asked me in the post that I quoted.

I'm not spending my evening quibbling with you. You obviously can't handle your narrative being questioned and so are getting defensive and patronising, if that's the type of poster you want to be that's fine but I'm out.

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 19:41

GhostCicada · 22/10/2024 18:59

I answered the question you directly asked me in the post that I quoted.

I'm not spending my evening quibbling with you. You obviously can't handle your narrative being questioned and so are getting defensive and patronising, if that's the type of poster you want to be that's fine but I'm out.

What's your question again? I don't have the time or energy to go searching back for it.

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Oodiks · 22/10/2024 20:05

Oodiks · 22/10/2024 19:41

What's your question again? I don't have the time or energy to go searching back for it.

I actually went back through the thread trying to find a specific question you are asking and could not find one. Lots of questions embedded in paragraphs of text, but I can't figure out what your central question is.

So, what is the question you are asking?

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SharonEllis · 22/10/2024 20:20

I suspect that the reason unwra is still separate is that unhcr doesn't want it - what a headache to have to work with Hamas. I agree its interesting that its hard to find something that clearly addresses your question.

Lolapusht · 22/10/2024 20:38

I think they may have been asking something about if you/we are willing to crept Israel’s continued part in keeping Gaza underdeveloped? They said something about how since 2005 Israel has continually destroyed Gaza. It read like “Israel left, Hamas destroyed some things that got rebuilt, Israel repeatedly invade and deliberately destroy infrastructure” ie the only point of them going in was to blow up roads etc as opposed to going in to try to destroy another terror threat. Gaza will be rebuilt and it will probably be destroyed again more than a couple of times in my life time. Israel goes in to eliminate a terror threat, Hamas retaliates by launching another intifada, Israel goes in to neutralise the threat and round we go again.

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 20:43

Probably best to keep UNWRA up and running whilst the population of Gaza is enduring a genocide. Arguing for its dissolution might look like a prong of that genocide otherwise.

Alwayslookonthe · 22/10/2024 20:44

@Oodiks

As you know most of the registered Palestinian refugees are not refugees at all in any sense from the definition set out by the UNHCR. They could definitely be absorbed by UNHCR.

The obvious place to begin with dismantling UNWRA is the Palestinian Authority. UNWRA’s operations should be merged with those of the Palestinian Authority. Donor states could divert all financial support earmarked for running schools and hospitals toward the Palestinian Authority. From a practical perspective nothing would change but the sign on the door.

In Jordan, there are 2.2 million refugees registered most of these are citizens of Jordan - so not actually refugees under the definition used by UNHCR for all other refugees in the world. Most do not use UNWRA services and UNWRA’s budget for Jordan is relatively low, compared to the number of refugees it registers there. There is no reason for UNWRA to operate in Jordan at all. Donor states could directly transfer their aid budgets for UNWRA in Jordan and chart a path for the Jordanian Government to take over to provide the health and school services as it does for all of it’s other citizens.

Syria didn’t grant Palestinian refugees citizenship but allowed them entry into the economy and civil rights on par with Syrian citizens.
After the Syrian war it is highly likely there is only a fraction of the half a million refugees registered by UNWRA are actually residing in Syria. Many fled from the war to other countries and have become citizens of other countries (even though they are still counted on the refugee list in Syria). All those residing in Syria, should be transferred to the care and protection of UNHCR. In doing so, they would become official refugees subject to the protection UNHCR. The funding for UNWRA in Syria would be transferred to UNHCR which would operate in the same manner that it operates with other refugees populations around the world. It would seek and implement individual solutions that would end their refugee status either by becoming full citizens of Syria or resettling elsewhere.

In Lebanon the Palestinian refugees have been treated the worst. Lebanon did not make the Palestinians citizens, they were not integrated into the economy. The Palestinian refugees and their descendants in Lebanon have been prohibited from employment in over twenty professions and their ability to enter and exit the country is highly limited. Around half live in refugee camps and many live in dire poverty. The policy with respect to refugees in Lebanon should be, as with the refugees from Syria to transfer responsibility for Palestinian registered refugees from UNWRA to UNHCR. In 2017 an official census in Lebanon found that the number of registered refugees living there was only one-third of the number in UNWRA’s records. Since the refugee population is much smaller than previously thought it should be easier to find individual solutions for them. UNHCR would advocate to end the discriminatory regime against them in Lebanon, while it would also seek solutions of resettlement in third countries and even attempt to naturalisation in Lebanon.

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