What would Keir Starmer do if a group of Norwegians supported by the Norwegian government invaded tomorrow killing thousands?

[itsmabeline]

Raping them, brining children, taking hostages then held them for a year. Then promised they would do it again and again any time they had the power or chance.

Do you think we'd invade Norway?

Do you think we'd have domestic or international support?

Gaza is part of Palestine - a country in its own right with as much right to exist as Israel

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice
My point about the Falklands was that when another nation invaded sovereign territory we did not "give it back" we mobilised and defended it militarily.

So the analogy with another country then, like Norway, works.

October 7th was an atrocity

Israel's response to October 7th is also an atrocity

No one wins here.

You just proved my point.

Israel has a right to defend itself.
So do the Palestinians.

Innocent Israelis have faced suffering, terrorism and loss of their loved ones.
So have innocent Palestinians (and actually, in terms of sheer numbers, more Palestinians have been affected and for much longer)

See the problem is- I can condemn the horror on both sides. You clearly can’t. If you’re so aghast by the terror of 9/11 and Oct 7- surely you can’t be that insincere to have the same reaction for what the Palestinians have been going though BEFORE and AFTER 7/10/2023.

Did we carpet bomb Argentina though?

This is just ridiculous. If in the situation you described Starmer decided to carpet bomb Norway, committing war crimes and killing civilians, and then decide that wasn't enough and move onto Sweden, I hope to god that a good proportion of the international community and the UK population would be screaming at him.

War crimes are war crimes. Just because a government thinks they're necessary in those particular circumstances doesn't change anything.

The analogy doesn't really work as the UK doesn't recognise Palestine as a sovereign state.

NI and the IRA bombings would have made more sense.

@Dubaiinception the Flaklands war ended because after 6 weeks, Argentina surrendered.

And?

Exactly what part of Israel are the Lebanese occupying?

Do you actually understand that even Israel does not think they are fighting a separate sovereign state?

Palestine is not a country according to Israel, US and the UK so absolutely none of your analogies make sense.

Ha ha, that's really funny! Because actually it was quite clearly a reference to kids being burned alive. Awful taste.

I'm not laughing at kids being harmed - I have family in both Lebanon and Palestine, and know only too well the fear and trauma and despair they are living with. I was making a jest about the spelling error.

Don’t worry @Zimunya, I found it amusing too. As a PP said, the OP has obviously been imbibing something strong!

Pre 7th October 2023 I used to feel a bit sorry for the Israelis British (? I’ve lost the analogy) but since their massive disproportionate response, I’ve educated myself about the history and now have not a drop of sympathy left. The way they have treated the Palestinians Norwegians for decades, they’re reaping what they’ve sown.

What would you do if the moon was made of cheese?

Reaping what they've sown? What did they people raped, murdered and kidnapped on October 7th sow exactly that they deserved that?

Yes the Israeli soldiers have been murdering and raping Palestinians for decades

For balance the Palestinians have also been violent towards the Israelis

For even more balance - the historic ratio is that the Israelis kill 10 for every one that the Palestinians killed

Now do you understand why it's not as simple as 7/10?

Ignoring @GermanBite's (very good) sovereign nation point.

If we say the reaction of the US to 9/11 with the invasion of Afghanistan is similar:

1,195 people killed in the 7 October attacks
42k Palestinians killed in the last year as a result of the Israel-Hamas war. About 7% of the Gaza population (and yes not all were in Gaza, but it's a good enough percentage).

2,996 people killed in 9/11 attacks. 176,000 people killed in Afghanistan between 2001 and 2021 (20 years). Figures for the first year are hard to come by, but the highest number I've seen is 20k. 20k is 0.04% of the Afghani population. 176k is 0.4%.

Both sets of figures include both civilians and combatants. For both obviously each side will disagree on what percentage are civilians, and what percentage are combatants. Each side will also disagree on the numbers.

But the disproportionate response is very clear even if you come from the starting point that the US were right to go onto Afghanistan (which I don't).

What Hamas did on October 7 was terrible. I completely condemn it. Hamas have been commiting war crimes. But 'they started it's (even if that were true and it's obviously hotly debated) doesn't justify war crimes.

Some of the terrorists who murdered 130 people (hundreds injured) in coordinated attacks in Paris, 9 years ago, were Belgian and Greek.
Four of them managed to get back to Belgium.
Did the French government decide to carpet bomb Belgium and Greece?
After all, we, as a nation, had/has the right to defend ourselves.
Funny they chose, instead, to use their intelligence service, in cooperation with others, to track them down.
Paris attacks of 2015 - Response, Global Condemnation, Solidarity | Britannica

When the IRA planted bombs in England did the British army invade the Republic of Ireland or rain down bombs on cities like Belfast and Derry to kill the leaders ?
No.

When Loyalist terrorists - the UVF bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 did the Irish army invade the 6 counties of Ulster and / or bomb certain areas to get at the Loyalist leaders ?
No.

“Everything is legitimate” - This is the only what has been caught on camera. I don’t think anyone on any side is innocent but by escalating violence on one side, you create an atmosphere where you finally cannot find conciliation and peace.

https://news.sky.com/story/video-appears-to-show-idf-soldiers-sexually-abusing-palestinian-detainee-13193857

This is incorrect. Where does it say that they were Greek? The only mention of Greece is that one of the attackers had previously been to Athens... please be careful.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34832512.amp

41,000 plus people have been killed and at this rate more will follow in Gaza and Lebanon and we have people writing such a scenario. What are you hoping to achieve ? I cannot see people supporting more killings. So just give it a break.

We might just go along with it -most Brits aren’t religious and would not care much if Norway invaded, in fact it would be a good thing as we’d get some of their North Sea oil profits.

This wins the award for the most idiotic thing I have ever read on MN.

Worst analogy I have ever seen and shows a deep lack of understanding of the middle east. I think you need to go educate yourself.

Ypu would go along with your family being g kidnapped and tortured, would you?