Pagers and walkie talkies .....audacious and successful strike against terrorists

[mids2019]

If a large number of members of Al Quaeda or ISIS were killed with a precise attack I think in the West there would be admiration and indeed satisfaction that such a military success had occurred.

However I am disturbed by the reporting of the targeted neutralization of terrorists within Lebanon with even the main stream press virtually describing those struck as civilians and questioning the legality and morality of this! Have we lost our moral compassess?

There were some unfortunate civil an deaths but given the scale of the strike this was a terrible inevitability. However the civil an to combatant rratio was very small in reality as the explosions were kinky d to a personal zone. Yet when we read the press we allow terrorist propaganda calling the events a massacre of even that trumped up word 'genocide' that people seem to love.

If Osama bin Laden had been brought to a local hospital would we have allowed weeping doctors to lament his injuries? Thought not.

This was an interesting poll on Lebanese attitudes towards Hezbollah

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/shadow-hezbollah-israel-escalation-poll-shows-slim-majority-lebanese-still-want

I would also point out for all it’s faults that Israel can remove it’s leaders by just going to a ballot box. They don’t need an assassination or a civil war to do so.

Thanks for this, it's a bit different to what I expected

We rapidly get to the point where Israel cannot defend it’s own territory by this measure. Children died and it’s fucking horrible. This however did not stop Hezbollah from firing missiles into Israel when it killed children itself. The idea that anyone can be immune in a conflict or that we can have zero civilian casualties is a fantasy people sooth themselves with. This is what happens when you choose (and hezbollah chose) to enter into a conflict. People die, often your own.

Quite a few Lebanese on a forum I was on where pretty blunt about the fact that hezbollah were meeting in extremely populated areas so they would have human shields (they were obviously disgusted). They still loathe Israel but they aren’t stupid enough to not understand what Hezbollah is. But they have to live with them don’t they?

Yet Netanyahu is one of the longest serving Israeli PM. By which it can only mean that he is quite popular in Israel.

This is very simplistic and not really correct. There is a long complex history between Israel and Lebanon. Israel has twice or three times invaded Lebanon and they have attacked each other back and forth for decades.

Yeah it’s really interesting, it’s a complicated picture and I think the prospect of an open conflict with Israel may mix it up a bit as well. Possibly embed loyalty or anger towards Hezbollah.

He has been elected atleast five times, why? Why do the Israeli people continue to vote for this right wing extremist and his extremist terrorist government?

Yup, why did Israel attack Lebanon? It may have had something to do with the PLO using it as a staging post to attack Israel? As you said it’s a long history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict

it’s wiki but it’s short for people who are interested.

Which bit was not correct by the way? If I’ve made a mistake I would like to make sure what I’ve misunderstood.

Indeed.

His government is made up of MKs from different parties. Although democratic, Israel has a dreadful proportional representation election system. Netanyahou is not 'quite popular' at all.

It's interesting isn't it. They could choose differently like that poster pointed out but they don't. This government is what they want over and over again.

I've been out for dinner and come back and still no one can answer if they would support the PA doing the same to their legitimate target the IDF. If in those circumstances they would be on here crowning about 'what else can they do', 'It's sad that children died and innocent people are left traumatised but it was a precision strike', if they would describe it as 'audacious and successful'. Not even a yes or no answer. It's strange that. It's almost as if some posters have one set of rules for Israelis and another for everyone else in the Middle East, almost like some kind of apartheid system or something

It's probably hard to know unless you are in a country surrounded by neighbours who feel so strongly about you being there

In terms of understanding that is

I’m not Israeli but I would say it’s a war. People get killed. I would always bear in mind who the aggressors were though. If you have been attacked of course you will think reprisals are perfectly acceptable. In this case Israel was attacked by Hezbollah so it attacked back. I mean thats the kind of argument pro-hamas people make, Palestinians are oppressed so violent resistence is justified. I do think there is a moral difference when you are acting defensively vs offensively. This is war, it’s fucking miserable for all involved, don’t start one would be my very blunt advice.

I think it’s natural for people to have more sympathy with the group they are more invested in. Israelis are quite obviously going to be more concerned about Israelis in a war, Lebanese people about other Lebanese people.

Even many of the protesters who don’t really know much about the middle east but see themselves as fighting oppression/colonialism identify with Palestinians to the point where they will tear down posters of Israeli children and feel that they are morally right, people who defend Hamas’s actions as “resistance” they don’t see themselves as bad people doing something that is cruel. The settlers harassing and committing violence against Palestinians, the kinds of people who spit on Christians. None of these people look at themselves and think “goodness I have zero moral compass.” They believe themselves to be justified.

No-one sees themselves as a villain.

Correct
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/long-history-warfare-israel-lebanon-border-2024-06-07/

Coming back to this the situation was surely closer to this pre October 7th

There had been previous talk of an accord which did not work, so I'm sure it could be closer, but in terms of iron dome and not escalating it was closer before the attack

How does indiscriminately killing children come under "defending your own country"?

I'm not going to support Hezbollah or Hamas when they do it so I am not going to support Israel when they do it either.

Currently Israeli jets are taking out rocket launching positions in Lebanon presumably manned by exactly the same people that some apparently sympathise with after the pager strike. This is absolutely vital self defence from Israel and I would be amazed if someone tried to challenge this notion. It also begs questions about how Israel can defend its people of we bowed down to the useful idiots that suggest disarming Israel in the west.

A fair reporting of Lennon is that Israel has had a great deal of tactical success recently and Hizbollah is being dealt a major blow. A terrorist organisation being dismantled gets a thumbs up from me. Hezbollah I think has failed to get the PR win it wished by laughably portraying the pager attacks as a terrorist event or highlighting Vivian casuaties. The hyperbole hasn't worked as far as Hizbollah is concerned.

I think Hamas supporters worry that it is becoming more apparent to the world the real threats Israel face and the sheer number of rockets possessed by Hizbollah is persuading many right minded people to clearly see Israel's right and need to defend itself amongst a constant demonstration of its state, people and armed forces. Israel is at war.

It is hard to beat terrorist ideology granted but they can be neutered to an extent through removal of the capability of waging armed attacks and it is sensible to do this. One of the problems looking for a lasting peace here is that you cannot by definition find peace with groups whose sole reason of existence is to destroy you. How can Hamas and Hizbollah realistically talk of a lasting sustainable peace in the region when hatred of Israel is in their DNA? I think ultimately it is for the Plaestinaina and Lebanese people to think which leading groups are acting in their best interests in terms of peace and prosperity for their peoples. It can't and won't be a peace and prosperity through the destruction of Israel so there needs to be a change in attitude in those countries that surround Israel.

I think many people are seeing the atrocities Israel is committing in the name of self defence so find it really difficult to justify what IDF and the government are doing. War crimes are war crimes regardless of who is doing them.

I also feel it’s Israel’s citizens to think whether their government is acting in the interest of their citizens. However , the last few polls that are coming out of Israel have made me quite disappointed as many of them justify IDFs actions. It can’t and won’t be peace through the destruction of Palestine either.

it’s sad that in order to provide your opinion @mids2019 you feel you have to to attack other peoples opinion.

I think ultimately it's got to be accepted there are many in the region that want Israel not to exist. I don't think you can get round this personally. The reason Hizbollah have rockets is not to defend Lebanon but to offer a continuous threat to a country they have backed by Iran. We have Israel surrounded by neighbours that are fuelled by a hate filled ideology as evidenced by October 7th that are willing to kill Israelis to fulfil their ideological aims.

If Hizbollah are using rockets to make Israel uninhabitable then whatnot Israel meant to do!?.a reasonable person would suggest targeting the rocket launchers and those that man them. This is the action Israel took.

If a terrorist organisation killed over a thousand of your citizens then what should you do? You take action to remove said organisation; this is what Israel is doing. Every state has a right to self defence.

Palestine doesn't exist as a state and so cannot be destroyed. What can be destroyed are the units of terrorists acting in the Gaza strip. The unfortunate thing (and this does worry some Israelis granted) is the civilian death toll. I think the way to protect future Gazans is to find a peace but that will always be thwarted if you have those that wish to destroy Israel in charge.

If Israel had more peaceable neighbours then rheumatoid keep voting in governments that are focussed on security;. Until there is a wider acceptance of the right of Israel to exist I cannot see an immediate solution.

Palestine doesn't exist as a state and so cannot be destroyed.

I won’t continue discussing with you after it.

from wikipedia

Palestine,[i] officially the State of Palestine,[ii][e] is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia recognized by 145 out of 193 UN member states

HTH

@mids2019

How convenient to paint a picture of all the hatred being on the "other side".

Meanwhile peace-loving Isreal is bulldozing Palestine homes on the West Bank, stealing their land, while armed settlers are terrorising farmers under the protection of the Israeli state, police and IDF.

Prior to Oct 7th, 2023 was the deadliest year to be a Palestinian on the WB, when Israel shot over 500 civilians including over 100 children.

Tell me about the hatred again?