Pagers and walkie talkies .....audacious and successful strike against terrorists

[mids2019]

If a large number of members of Al Quaeda or ISIS were killed with a precise attack I think in the West there would be admiration and indeed satisfaction that such a military success had occurred.

However I am disturbed by the reporting of the targeted neutralization of terrorists within Lebanon with even the main stream press virtually describing those struck as civilians and questioning the legality and morality of this! Have we lost our moral compassess?

There were some unfortunate civil an deaths but given the scale of the strike this was a terrible inevitability. However the civil an to combatant rratio was very small in reality as the explosions were kinky d to a personal zone. Yet when we read the press we allow terrorist propaganda calling the events a massacre of even that trumped up word 'genocide' that people seem to love.

If Osama bin Laden had been brought to a local hospital would we have allowed weeping doctors to lament his injuries? Thought not.

Well opinion is currently split as to whether the pager attack may have breached "international law".

Not myself but it’s not something I have full knowledge about. However experts on this are saying Israel is committing war crimes so I don’t think the way Israel is dealing with it is the right way, hence why I don’t agree with it.

Ok so no one can say what this is?

How do you deal with a terrorist organisation realistically?

Iron dome to protect your citizens, intelligence, infiltration and very specific target attacks on command centers, using your allies. I think it's more akin to undercover police work trying to infiltrate drug gangs and military intelligence work.
Not easy, not quick but I would think it could be more effective long-term. I am sure Israel are already doing this.
I don't think anyone on these threads would think for a minute that the constant back and forth airstrikes and threat to Israelis are not horrendous for innocent Israeli civilians it's no way to live, but I also don't think anyone wants to live in a world where we're struggling to see the difference between the actions of a terrorist organision and a democratic nation state.

Thanks for answering. I'm not sure it would do it but I'm open to discussing more

As an aside I absolutely feel for people in Lebanon who are no doubt scared to be in the position they are in. And I wonder what they can do with their own gov and how to deal with a terrorist organisation across the country

They mustn't vote for this? Perhaps the state is not functioning very well atm, I have had really wonderful experiences with people from there and I am not up to speed on what their gov is doing for them

Most of us can see the difference between terrorists and actions of a democratic state.

Some people on MN would be happy for this to happen, it seems.

Yes, most of us can. And we see that what is being done to innocent people in Palestine and Lebanon is not consistent with what should be expected of a democratic state. Terrorism is not defeated by becoming that which people claim to be defending against.

Yes which is why it's important to not flout the international laws of armed conflict even though the terrorist enemies do

This is also valid

My choice would for Oct 7th not to have occurred but since we cannot time travel getting out of this is a really hard one

Dropping a bunker busting bomb on a school with civilians and children in it because Hamas might be underneath is not "precise".
In the latest case Hizbollah terrorists were in the building and killed. Very likely many Hamas terrorists have also been taken out this way.

Sorry forgot to tag
@JaneDoeHere

And I wonder what they can do with their own gov and how to deal with a terrorist organisation across the country
Yes I would also wonder, found the below on Wikipedia

At the end of the Lebanese Civil War in 1990, despite the Taif Agreement asking for the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias", Syria, which controlled Lebanon at that time, allowed Hezbollah to maintain their arsenal and control Shia areas along the border with Israel.

And also

Hezbollah, a Lebanese Shia Islamist political party and militia group, has an exceptionally strong military wing, thought to be stronger than the Lebanese Army and equivalent to the armed strength of a medium-sized army.

Being stronger then the Lebanese army suggests they are in control and civilians don't have much agency in any of it

I agree with OP.
When news about the exploding pagers emerged, I was disappointed to see no mention that Hezbollah is, in fact, a terrorist organization. This was a highly targeted and impressive operation, one that I wish my country could carry out if needed. Instead, the facts are being distorted, misrepresenting the situation. These were not civilians. Israel must do whatever it takes to protect itself from terrorists. There’s no easy solution—terrorists don’t follow the rules.

Defending against terrorism requires decisive action, and Israel has the right to safeguard its people from those who seek to do harm.

And yet what they are doing is creating more and more "terrorists" for them to fight.
But then that could be the reason why they are also showing no mercy to the children.

Indeed. The reports are distorted to play social media, it's a PR game to terrorists. Show the innocent child (of a hezbollah member) that's the focus whilst they scrabble about working out how many hezbollah operatives and members are injured

Show the innocent child (of a hezbollah member)
Pretty distasteful to include the piece in brackets, no child should die because of the crimes of their father. Yes you'll come back and say he put that child at risk due to his actions, yes true, but at least show a bit of remorse for the death of an INNOCENT child they are faultless and just as much a victim of this sorry mess.

Yes I think this may be the case

This is a few years old now after a shooting 2021

Speaking from Doha, Rami Khouri, director of global engagement at the American University of Beirut, said Thursday’s violence was “another manifestation of underlying structural weaknesses” that have continued in Lebanon since the 1950s.

“For years now, people in Lebanon threaten civil strife if their demands are not met. It is a terrible situation where violence has become the currency of the political situation. It is a system that does not serve the majority of people anymore,” he added.

Khouri added that protests on the streets over the past two years have reflected
that the majority of the Lebanese people want to reform that system.

The United States will offer an additional $67m to support the Lebanese army, US Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland said in Beirut."

The other issue is the last thing the majority might want is a civil war between militia and the army, in a kind of Sudan situation

Then there's Iran funding Hezbollah. I really feel for people in Lebanon not wanting this

I remember only a few years ago when Beirut was the new cool weekend destination. I was planning to go before Covid hit.

What can the anyone do if another country is funding terrorists in your own country just because of the geography

You may not want it, nor vote for it and even the army funded by someone else would just end in an awful and unwanted civil war

How do you rid yourselves of this issue?

I won't. That child should not have died and was totally innocent.

You misunderstood, hezbollah use the child to deflect from their members who were carrying the pagers and targeted.

How do you rid yourselves of this issue
I guess with international support but it is tricky because like you said you don't want civil war. It is like a cuckooing situation on a massive scale

This really. The reality is Hezbollah attacked Israel the day after 7th October and weeks before Israel responded to Hamas. It was never in a bid to get a ceasefire. Israel has had something like 25 rockets a day coming into north Israel since 8th October. The reality is something has to be done about that. I’m not sure that any country would allow that to continue on it’s border.

Hezbollah involved themselves. I read reports from a thinktank that looks at various conflicts. It suggests that 32 people who died were Hezbollah. The vast majority wounded were hezbollah. They even wounded some IRCG operatives in Syria. The claims that loads of civilians were wounded are inaccurate. Even hezbollah isn’t claiming this. There were civilian casualties though.

I really think when it comes to Hezbollah people struggle with context here. Israel did not attack Hezbollah or Lebanon, Hezbollah were the ones who attacked first. Nasrallah has confirmed he will continue. Thats for a bunch of reasons but partly he’s pretty much the head of Irans group of proxies and he has no way to get out of it.

Some posters struggle with the concept that if you attack a country it will most likely attack you back. You can’t start screaming that it’s not fair when it happens if you were the aggressor. It’s weirdly specific to the middle east and specifically if it involves Israel. I’m saying that as someone with zero skin in the game but is capable of understanding cause and effect.

Depressingly the view from america on a ceasefire is very neagtive. The most recent round involved Israelis conceding to demand from Hamas and then Hamas refusing the deal anyway. The sentiment is that Hamas don’t actually want a deal. I think things are a bit more complex than is appreciated by most of us.

www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-september-20-2024

GoadyMcBigot Israel is not a terrorist state. It is a democracy, unlike many other middle eastern countries. HTH