Israel says tent camp blaze that killed 45 Palestinians could have been caused by exploding Hamas weapons cache

[keenforhelp]

The weapons they used were of particularly low yield and shouldn’t have been able to cause a detonation like that. The video shows multiple smaller explosions which does point towards some kind of explosive being hidden with the civilians.

So let's not be so quick to judge - let's wait for more evidence before apportioning blame one either side.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13471003/Israel-says-tent-camp-blaze-killed-45-Palestinians-sparked-international-outcry-caused-exploding-Hamas-weapons-cache-IDF-tanks-roll-centre-Rafah.html

But if IDF hadn’t bombed the camp in the first place, there wouldn’t have been any explosion

This went too far and immediate ceasefire is needed. The number of children killed is horrific. The violence must stop. I don’t care who is the one to be blamed for starting it all. The duty of the governments across the world and us - citizens is to protect human rights of civilian population and demand the ceasefire so that humanitarian corridors are open and humanitarian aid could reach Gaza. The fact is that so many UN and other humanitarian aid workers are killed in this conflict is also unacceptable.

And the statement by White House this morning that the latest attacks have not reached their red line tells it all! How many more children needs to be killed?!

Right ... so the only morally acceptable course of action for IDF is to refrain from bombing any Hamas weapons caches if these happen to be co-located with civilians, and instead just wait for Hamas to instead use those weapons to kill Israelis

🙄

And how are Israel explaining the decapitation of children?

@YankeeDad so you don’t mind more and more children being killed then

It is extremely difficult for the IDF in these circumstances.

I do mind more and more children being killed. They have done nothing wrong.

I just think it is important to also remember the context. By systematically situating their military assets in places where there are civilians, including children, Hamas shares at least an equal share of the responsibility and blame for every civilian death in Gaza.

Not disputing Hamas are evil but we can’t just see more and more innocent Palestinians being killed. And Israeli Government have made it quite clear that they are out to destroy Gaza, Hamas has just given them, in their mind, a justifiable excuse to do this.

You act like expecting the IDF not to bomb weapons caches surrounded by refugee civilians is unreasonable. WTF kind of an insane statement is that.

There are other options to bombing something

and instead just wait for Hamas to instead use those weapons to kill Israelis
and once again posters think we all think Palestinian lives and Palestinian children's lives are worth less than Israelis. That isn't the perspective a lot of us view things from, so we are unlikely to agree something which kills any civilians is ever the best option.

Nobody wants to see innocents killed!

This thread is about the possibility of the fire not being Israel's fault on this occasion.

This thread is about the possibility of the fire not being Israel's fault on this occasion.
It may have not been intentional but it was their fault no doubt about that

Surely everybody knows tents containing only bedding and clothes always explode when shelled.
The deaths of non-combatants of any age is sad, but as long as Hamas exists Israel has a choice between wiping the psychotic, murdering rapists out or waiting for another 7/10, and so long as Hamas hides behind non-combatants of any age, they will die.
It really is as simple as that.

Are Israeli lives worth less than Palestinian lives?

If Hamas systematically builds weapons caches in and beneath civilian sites, and then uses them to kill Israelis whenever they can, than what options does that leave Israel other than kill, to let themselves be killed, or to organise for the emigration of 100% of the Jewish population to … where?

Israel told civilians to evacuate to that area, stating it was a 'humanitarian' or 'safe' zone. They therefore knew it had a high density of civilians, including children and other vulnerable people.

Israel also has made a big show of its efforts to evacuate people, using this as a key part of its defence against the case in the ICJ. These notifications have continued, telling people to leave areas in advance of operations there. (Although there's an awareness that these notifications are often misleading).

Israel had the knowledge of a high density of civilians, the capability to communicate evacuation instructions, and likely the time to tell people to move out of the area (it is extremely unlikely that any opposing force in the area would have posed an imminent risk of severe harm to Israeli civilians). They chose not to. They chose to fire missiles at an area they had not evacuated, and in which in fact they had created a high civilian population density.

They are responsible for that decision.

When you fire a missile somewhere, you are responsible for what that missile does. Things like "if this hits something flammable..." need to be factored into that decision to fire the missile. And tents, cooking equipment, and civilian populations in general are quite flammable.

It really feels like we have gone full circle when people are arguing that beheading and burning children alive is an OK way to 'defend' yourself.

I was wondering when they would start saying that they were responsible. It's just so predictable.

This, exactly this. From the first hospital they bombed back in October, the routine is the same each and every time.

If anyone is believing israel's excuses at this stage, after so many obvious lies then there is nothing to say

also as usual their "explanations" are full of discrepancies and contradictions

@YankeeDad if a terrorist was hiding in your child’s school would you accept that the school needed to be blown up and destroyed with your child and all other children in it?

Well, HAMAS has clearly conveyed through its actions that they think putting weapons caches in refugee camps, using aid payments to dig tunnels and buy rockets, putting command and control centers in and under hospitals, mosques, and schools, and where they can, killing, raping, torturing and abducting Israeli civilians is a perfectly legitimate way to “resist”. And that they will do this again and again, if they can.

What specific suggestions to you have for how Israel can legitimately and fairly defend themselves against those sorts of tactics?

Or are you in effect saying that Israelis have a moral duty to let HAMAS keep doing that again and again, because due to HAMAS tactics, there is simply no way to stop HAMAS without killing Palestinian civilians?

Of course not. I would become very angry and I might even join the terrorists.

This is precisely why HAMAS terrorists deliberately hide in schools. And hide their weapons there. And build their command centers underneath schools rather than underneath auto repair shops.

I am not saying that what Israel is doing is right. What I am saying, though, is that by lining up in defense of the civilians while ignoring what the terrorists are doing, we are playing right into their hands.

can someone please explain how hamas managed to get a weapons cache into this so called safe zone, cleared and guarded by idf? either the idf are incompetent or someone is telling porkies. given the current record, I would go for the latter

also so far not one little bit of evidence of this weapons cache

remember when they said that the wfk strike was by hamas? how they shot those poor Israeli hostages because they thought they were hamas? how they apparently found guns in the mri room?😂when they put out a photo of a white board from al shifa hospital which they said contained terrorist names but was actually the rota for the doctors? when they used a clip from a Lebanese TV drama as evidence that hamas was in hospitals? I could go on....

someone can only make so many "tragic mistakes" before it starts sounding intentional and after a certain point, if someone keeps lying you have to start taking what they say with a pinch of salt.

No, bombing a weapons cache in a refugee camp is not the way to deal with that situation.

You also have to try to drag yourself into the real world, where Israel has a multi-billion military backed by the US and Hamas has fuck all in comparison. And Israel has killed over 35,000 people, including bombs this week that ripped the head off a baby and killed and burned hundreds of people who only have access to the most basic medical care. So the threat to both populations are not comparable.