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Conflict in the Middle East

Israel says tent camp blaze that killed 45 Palestinians could have been caused by exploding Hamas weapons cache

66 replies

keenforhelp · 29/05/2024 11:05

The weapons they used were of particularly low yield and shouldn’t have been able to cause a detonation like that. The video shows multiple smaller explosions which does point towards some kind of explosive being hidden with the civilians.

So let's not be so quick to judge - let's wait for more evidence before apportioning blame one either side.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13471003/Israel-says-tent-camp-blaze-killed-45-Palestinians-sparked-international-outcry-caused-exploding-Hamas-weapons-cache-IDF-tanks-roll-centre-Rafah.html

Israel says horror tent camp blaze not caused by IDF strikes alone

Horrifying scenes on Sunday showed a blazing hellscape following airstrikes near tents for displaced Palestinians in a designated safe zone due northwest of Rafah city

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13471003/Israel-says-tent-camp-blaze-killed-45-Palestinians-sparked-international-outcry-caused-exploding-Hamas-weapons-cache-IDF-tanks-roll-centre-Rafah.html

OP posts:
therealcookiemonster · 29/05/2024 13:22

and for those using the human shields argument, the only organisation using human shields is the IDF who have an official policy to do so. this is widely documented

eg. by this Israeli human rights organisation

https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields

PearlKoala · 29/05/2024 13:24

YankeeDad · 29/05/2024 13:08

Well, HAMAS has clearly conveyed through its actions that they think putting weapons caches in refugee camps, using aid payments to dig tunnels and buy rockets, putting command and control centers in and under hospitals, mosques, and schools, and where they can, killing, raping, torturing and abducting Israeli civilians is a perfectly legitimate way to “resist”. And that they will do this again and again, if they can.

What specific suggestions to you have for how Israel can legitimately and fairly defend themselves against those sorts of tactics?

Or are you in effect saying that Israelis have a moral duty to let HAMAS keep doing that again and again, because due to HAMAS tactics, there is simply no way to stop HAMAS without killing Palestinian civilians?

I'm not sure tbh, I'm not a military bod but bombing a refugee camp, a place you yourself decided was a safe zone, going against the ICJ, beheading children and burning them alive to kill 2 members of a terrorist organisation can never be OK can it? What Hamas are convinced of shouldn't really come into how other people should place their morals.

Of course I'm not saying Israel have a moral duty to let Hamas do it over again but there has to be a line doesn't there? For most people burning children alive in the tents you made them live in would be a pretty clear line. I think that people need to be really careful that they aren't turning in the very people they despise and when it gets to a point that you are trying to argue that beheading refugee children is fine if it protects other people from an attack that may never happen then you need to take a look at how far gone you have let yourself go.

yumyum33 · 29/05/2024 15:12

I don't know why more people don't say exactly this.

yumyum33 · 29/05/2024 15:13

yumyum33 · 29/05/2024 15:12

I don't know why more people don't say exactly this.

Sorry, that was to Yankee Dad with whom i agree. Stupid hasty fingers.

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 16:15

Scirocco · 29/05/2024 12:52

Israel told civilians to evacuate to that area, stating it was a 'humanitarian' or 'safe' zone. They therefore knew it had a high density of civilians, including children and other vulnerable people.

Israel also has made a big show of its efforts to evacuate people, using this as a key part of its defence against the case in the ICJ. These notifications have continued, telling people to leave areas in advance of operations there. (Although there's an awareness that these notifications are often misleading).

Israel had the knowledge of a high density of civilians, the capability to communicate evacuation instructions, and likely the time to tell people to move out of the area (it is extremely unlikely that any opposing force in the area would have posed an imminent risk of severe harm to Israeli civilians). They chose not to. They chose to fire missiles at an area they had not evacuated, and in which in fact they had created a high civilian population density.

They are responsible for that decision.

When you fire a missile somewhere, you are responsible for what that missile does. Things like "if this hits something flammable..." need to be factored into that decision to fire the missile. And tents, cooking equipment, and civilian populations in general are quite flammable.

I read that Israel used precision bombing 100ft outside the humanitarian area to target a Hamas base. The munitions that detonated inside the camp were in a Hamas vehicle. A Jeep to be precise.

I imagine a vehicle packed with explosives would cause massive damage in an area filled with tents.

Why on earth was it there among civilians?

Absolutely disgusting.

Lots on Twitter about it including videos.

Dulra · 29/05/2024 16:17

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 16:15

I read that Israel used precision bombing 100ft outside the humanitarian area to target a Hamas base. The munitions that detonated inside the camp were in a Hamas vehicle. A Jeep to be precise.

I imagine a vehicle packed with explosives would cause massive damage in an area filled with tents.

Why on earth was it there among civilians?

Absolutely disgusting.

Lots on Twitter about it including videos.

Any links to this?

Newsenmum · 29/05/2024 16:22

There are people still supporting the IDF? Yes it is very difficult to get the hostages back and defeat Hamas. But their approach has been horrendous. I know very few people who disagree.

Newsenmum · 29/05/2024 16:24

Maybe if the idf actually created safe spaces for women and children I would feel sorry for how ‘difficult’ it is for them. No, it’s pretty clear to anyone that they are out for revenge (understandable) and want to eliminate Palestine (not actually ok).

EasterIssland · 29/05/2024 16:37

We need to remember that IDF has never lied and always provided the proof for their investigation. Please believe IDF

ps. They should have never bombed a safe area. End of

TakeMe2Insanity · 29/05/2024 16:38

Peonii · 29/05/2024 11:22

And how are Israel explaining the decapitation of children?

Thats the point they aren’t. They are deflecting as per usual.

TakeMe2Insanity · 29/05/2024 16:40

in simple terms the IDF have kettled the population and then precision bombed them.

Scirocco · 29/05/2024 16:51

TakeMe2Insanity · 29/05/2024 16:40

in simple terms the IDF have kettled the population and then precision bombed them.

Yep.

Megera · 29/05/2024 16:52

If Israel is speaking, they’re lying.

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 16:54

Dulra · 29/05/2024 16:17

Any links to this?

I’m sure you can find them yourself.

It was 100m not 100ft.

https://x.com/IDF/status/1795487775598231990

https://x.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1795168319701430624

x.com

https://x.com/IDF/status/1795487775598231990

Scirocco · 29/05/2024 16:58

That's actually claiming they struck 1.7km away, which magically caused a secondary explosion 100m away, which then spread. They really should just pick a lie and stick to it.

ConnieCounter · 29/05/2024 17:05

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 16:15

I read that Israel used precision bombing 100ft outside the humanitarian area to target a Hamas base. The munitions that detonated inside the camp were in a Hamas vehicle. A Jeep to be precise.

I imagine a vehicle packed with explosives would cause massive damage in an area filled with tents.

Why on earth was it there among civilians?

Absolutely disgusting.

Lots on Twitter about it including videos.

Did you think it was disgusting yesterday or only after you read something on twitter today saying it was Hamas's fault so now it's disgusting?

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 17:17

Scirocco · 29/05/2024 16:58

That's actually claiming they struck 1.7km away, which magically caused a secondary explosion 100m away, which then spread. They really should just pick a lie and stick to it.

I didn’t read it as they are claiming that at all. There was another explosion, a second one.

A vehicle full of weapons strategically placed in a refugee camp explodes after Israel target a nearby Hamas base.

They must be pretty dumb to have thought it could be passed off as the same explosion and no one would notice but of course people are that dumb they believe Hamas.

The ‘pro Palestinian’ lobby has only made Hamas stronger and given them a free pass to continue killing their own people.

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 17:21

ConnieCounter · 29/05/2024 17:05

Did you think it was disgusting yesterday or only after you read something on twitter today saying it was Hamas's fault so now it's disgusting?

Where have you got from my posts that I don’t care about Palestinian deaths?

Is that the only response you can formulate?

PeasfullPerson · 29/05/2024 17:22

Sure, let’s see what the ICC and ICJ make of it. Let’s wait for another 10,000 children to get killed.

Should people stop standing up against antisemitism because the Israeli government weaponise the issue? No.

That is ridiculous as suggesting that people should stop supporting innocent civilians in Palestine because Hamas weaponises that issue.

Dulra · 29/05/2024 17:33

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 16:54

I’m sure you can find them yourself

No I can't I am not on twitter assumed you read it from a news source

Scirocco · 29/05/2024 17:41

IDF x/twitter account version for people who don't like clicking on links.

Israel says tent camp blaze that killed 45 Palestinians could have been caused by exploding Hamas weapons cache
Scirocco · 29/05/2024 17:42

Spot the inconsistencies...

therealcookiemonster · 29/05/2024 18:01

EasterIssland · 29/05/2024 16:37

We need to remember that IDF has never lied and always provided the proof for their investigation. Please believe IDF

ps. They should have never bombed a safe area. End of

😂😂😂😂😂

I can only assume you are joking

travellinglighter · 29/05/2024 18:10

YankeeDad · 29/05/2024 11:21

Right ... so the only morally acceptable course of action for IDF is to refrain from bombing any Hamas weapons caches if these happen to be co-located with civilians, and instead just wait for Hamas to instead use those weapons to kill Israelis

🙄

Edited

Yep, that’s about right. You just can’t bomb civilians because there may be Hamas present. The RAF didn’t bomb the Divis flats because there were IRA present. If they had and it had blown up a IRA weapons cache. When Hamas pick up the weapons and point them at the IDF, the IDF are free to blaze away like billy-oh, I’ll shed no tears. There is this thing called the Geneva convention it requires combatants to set up rules of engagement that protect civilians, if the other guy doesn’t play the game, tough. Being the good guy is hard but the alternative is being the bad guy and when both sides are the bad guy no one can claim the moral high ground.

Limesodaagain · 29/05/2024 18:10

OverfilledBookcase · 29/05/2024 17:17

I didn’t read it as they are claiming that at all. There was another explosion, a second one.

A vehicle full of weapons strategically placed in a refugee camp explodes after Israel target a nearby Hamas base.

They must be pretty dumb to have thought it could be passed off as the same explosion and no one would notice but of course people are that dumb they believe Hamas.

The ‘pro Palestinian’ lobby has only made Hamas stronger and given them a free pass to continue killing their own people.

I 💯 want to see Hamas defeated but the Israeli scorched earth tactics mean they are now seen as the equivalent of Hamas in terms of callous disregard for innocent civilian life. This is a a terrible thing for both Israelis and Palestinians.

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