Gary Lineker - foot in mouth again

[onegrumpyoldwoman]

I wish this guy would stick to football or selling crisps

Most recently, he gave an interview to Medhi Hassan (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/12/lineker-appears-to-call-oct-7-attacks-the-hamas-thing/ ) where he appeared to minimise the October 7th Hamas attacks as “the Hamas thing”, whilst falsely stating of the war in Gaza “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”. This statement is absurd hyperbole given that Mr Lineker was born in 1960 and has hence lived through major wars such as Vietnam, Iraq, Iran-Iraq, the Soviet and Western interventions in Afghanistan, and the Syrian Civil War, all of which have cost hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions, of lives.

I do not believe that it is compatible with Mr Lineker’s role as a presenter on Match of the Day, and hence an employee of our national public broadcaster, which is supposed to be politically impartial, for him to take such outspoken stances.

My main objection to Gary Lineker and his habit of holding forth on particular issues is the damage he potentially does to the BBC and I really don’t understand why he wants to do it.

Impartiality is just so important to the BBC and I know he is just a football pundit but he is their highest paid presenter and the face of what is arguably the nation’s favourite sport. Like most media organisations it tends to be staffed by people with left leaning views which is fine but it is important not to sow mistrust amongst the large proportion of the population who don’t share those views.

If he really wants to publicly comment on such contentious and divisive issues It would have been so easy to properly acknowledge the hideous nature of the October 7 attacks while discussing the horrific scenes from Gaza.

He didn’t make these comments whilst working as a football pundit though? If he’d made them whilst on Match Of The Day it would be fair enough to be annoyed, but he’s entitled to his personal opinion and to share that when being interviewed by a completely separate publication to the one he’s employed by. Have you checked with your employer before posting your own views on this mumsnet thread? Do you expect your employer to tell you what you can and can’t say outside of work? Just because he’s paid to be a football pundit doesn’t mean he can’t have a political opinion, you very clearly have a political opinion and feel happy to share it. Why shouldn’t he be afforded the same right?

Mumsnet is anonymous and actually yes, I do have a clause in my contract relating to public Social Media postings. So does my DH.

I do too.

But anonymous forums don’t count.

Im also not extremely famous and influential

I agree that BBC presenters should keep their opinions to themselves. Expressing an opinion publicly is not a human right, he can cope on his high salary if he has to just spend his life doing his job and keeping his opinions between family and friends.

"I agree that BBC presenters should keep their opinions to themselves"

People in the news team should, I agree. Lineker is not in the news team.

And saying that what's happening in Gaza is the worst thing he has ever seen is a personal view, not a political opinion.

The death toll is not "opinion".

The almost complete destruction of Gaza is not "opinion".

Calling it what it is is not "opinion".

And frankly I would use far stronger language to describe what is happening in Gaza than Gary Lineker ever has.

I’ve just watched the full interview and contrary to what posters have written above he absolutely did refer to October 7 as “The Hamas thing”. Referring to the worst slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust in these casual terms is obviously an “opinion”.

What a wasted opportunity. I felt embarrassed for him.

I think that it is our government, the US government and Israeli government which do not seem to really recognise the suffering of Palestinians, only pay a bit of lip service to it, hence why the destruction continues.

There seems to be an asymmetry between the recognition of suffering for each group of people between the public and the government. I’m sorry it’s been hard to show support for Jewish people without encountering that. I am not anti Israel or Jewish people.

Having said that, I suppose it also feels that even though the government support the action in Gaza, many Jewish people in this country do not feel that they are supported by the government?

For balance, let's look at how Israeli government, ministers and officials, talk openly about the Palestinians.

Ariel Kallner, a Knesset member for Likud, said, "Right now, one goal: Nakba. A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948"

IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari, who said forces would turn Gaza into a "city of tents" and that Israel's "emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy" in the bombardment of Gaza.

Amichay Eliyahu, a cabinet minister, and Tally Gotliv, a Likud parliament member, have both called for Israel to use nuclear weapons on Gaza, with Gotliv stating: "It's time for a doomsday weapon. Not flattening a neighborhood. Crushing and flattening Gaza."

Galit Distel-Atbaryan, Knesset member for Likud posted on X that Israelis should focus on "Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth" and forcing the Gazans either into Egypt or to the death. It was such statements that led to Raz Segal's (Israeli historian and professor) characterization of Israel's conduct in the 2023 war in Gaza as a "textbook case of genocide", stating to Vox - “If this is not special intent to destroy, I don't know what is."

On 14 November 2023, Israel's finance minister Bezalel Smotrich stated that he welcomed "the initiative of the voluntary emigration of Gaza Arabs to countries around the world," adding that "the State of Israel will no longer be able to accept the existence of an independent entity in Gaza."

In November 2023, Israel's former justice minister, Ayelet Shaked, spoke of transforming Khan Younis into a soccer field with 'the assistance of God and the IDF'. Shaked said Israel should 'take advantage of the destruction that we will wreak upon them' in Gaza and pressure countries worldwide into accepting quotas of Gazan refugees, ranging from 20,000 to 50,000 per country.

On 22 November 2023, Otzma Yehudit MK Limor Son Har-Melech, said in a conference that "there is no escape from returning and fully controlling the Gaza Strip, full control that will include extensive and flourishing settlement in the entire strip. Not like the Gush Katif settlements that were concentrated in a few isolated areas, but settlement for the entire length and width of the strip."

In December 2023, David Azoulay, the head of the local council of the town of Metula, speaking to Israel's 103FM radio said the people of Gaza should be ordered to "go to the beaches" where the Israeli army would "load them up" on ships and "place them on Lebanon's shores where there are enough refugee camps", that "the entire Gaza Strip should be emptied and levelled flat, just like in Auschwitz. Let it become a museum, showcasing the capabilities of the State of Israel and dissuading anyone from living in the Gaza Strip" and that "we should leave Gaza desolate and destroyed to serve as a museum, demonstrating the madness of the people who lived there". His statements were condemned by the Auschwitz Museum.

On 9 April 2024, Israel minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich stated that Israel had "returned Khan Yunis to the stone age".

And we don't need a football pundit to point out what is happening before our very eyes.

The following are exclusively Jewish voices - academics, media and prominent Jews, mostly within Israel.

Raz Segal, Israeli historian:

A Textbook Case of Genocide

Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening?

https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

Lee Mordechai, Asst Professor at Hebrew University:

There is ample evidence for Israel’s indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks throughout the war, as well as many examples for massacres and other killings.

Thread by @LeeMordechai on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

B’tselem, human rights organisation run by Israeli Jews in Israel:

A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid

https://www.btselem.org/

Gideon Levy, Jewish journalist at Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper:

If It Isn't a Genocide in Gaza, Then What Is It?

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-01-14/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-it-isnt-a-genocide-in-gaza-then-what-is-it/0000018d-040c-dd07-a7df-cf7e8b980000

Mondoweiss, a news website co-edited by American Jews:

As Jews we know, this is not a war. It’s a genocide.

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/as-jews-we-know-this-is-not-a-war-its-a-genocide/

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/05/unpacking-the-israeli-campaign-to-deny-the-gaza-genocide/

The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, run by Israeli Jews:

Israel’s demolition of the homes of the indigenous Palestinian population is part of its ethnic cleansing agenda to eliminate its national and cultural presence.

https://icahd.org/

Bernie Saunders, Jewish senator:

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-statement-on-israels-threat-to-attack-rafah/

Bernie Sanders to Benjamin Netanyahu: ‘Stop murdering innocent people’

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/02/bernie-sanders-netanyahu-gaza-murdering-innocent-people

Haaretz, Israeli newspaper:

What Will Happen When the Holocaust No Longer Prevents the World From Seeing Israel as It Is?

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-05-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/what-happens-when-the-holocaust-no-longer-prevents-the-world-from-seeing-israel-as-it-is/0000018f-6e29-d336-abdf-feff0ed60000

Jewish Voice for Peace:

We’re fighting to stop a genocide. Slanders against our movements are a distraction.

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2024/04/25/slanders-against-our-movements-are-a-distraction/

@AhNowTed Now do Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and various Islamic “scholars” on Israel and Jews.

Would that be the Hamas that the Netanyahu government wilfully propped up right up to Oct 7th, in order to destabilise Palestine and avoid a Palestinian state.. those guys?

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

To be fair, I would totally expect this type of language from these terrorist organisations but from the Israeli government? Absolutely not.
If Rishi Sunak and his cabinet started spouting that type of fascist rhetoric, I would be living the country.

Unlike in Gaza where all the evidence suggests that the majority of the population supports the aims of groups such as Hamas.

The majority of Palestinians have lived their entire lives under a brutal dehumanising Israeli apartheid.

The same apartheid regime that propped up Hamas in Gaza in order to maintain the status quo, i.e. to undermine the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, and scupper any chance of a Palestinian state.

But yeah, it's all their fault.

Meanwhile the Israeli population supports the aims of a far right fascist government bent on the Palestinians destruction, and watches silently while their homes are bulldozed and land stolen.

But yeah, they're totally innocent.

I certainly don’t think Israel is entirely inncocent and have never met anyone, Jewish or not, who does.

@AhNowTed Meanwhile the Israeli population supports the aims of a far right fascist government bent on the Palestinians destruction, and watches silently while their homes are bulldozed and land stolen.

This is nonsense.

The Palestinian Authority has control of the West Bank and could stop any lawbreaking if they wanted.

Also please note:

In 2005, Israel evacuated all Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in Northern Samaria, but terror attacks continued.

In the previous round of talks, conducted in 2008 under then-prime minister Ehud Olmert, Israel offered to withdraw from roughly 94 percent of the West Bank, and compensate the Palestinians with the equivalent of 6 percent through a “land swap” that would allow Israel to keep major settlements.
Olmert also proposed international administration of Jerusalem’s holy sites. The Palestinians did not accept the offer.

In 2010, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu froze settlement construction for ten months, and the Palestinians refused to negotiate until the period was nearly over. After agreeing to talk, they walked out when Netanyahu ended the freeze and had still not returned to negotiations to date.

On 6th October the ratio of dead/murdered people was 1:23

Wanna guess if that ratio was
Israeli:Palestinian
Palestinian: Israeli

Israel has a democratically elected government.
Palestine has the result of a coup.

@onegrumpyoldwoman

"The Palestinian Authority has control of the West Bank and could stop any lawbreaking if they wanted."

I'm not sure if this is wilful ignorance or genuine naivety.

60% of the West Bank is controlled by Israel.

Or maybe you think the IDF is there on behalf of the Palestinians!

And the illegal settlements comprising 670,000 Israelis don't exist!

@AhNowTed 60% of the West Bank is controlled by Israel.

So what about the other 40% ?

@AhNowTed maybe you think the IDF is there on behalf of the Palestinians!

The extent to which Israel has been forced to maintain a military presence in the territories has been governed by the Palestinians’ unwillingness to end violence against Israel.

(As if the women and children killed by suicide bombers in buses, pizzerias, and shopping malls were responsible for the plight of the Palestinians?)

The only way to resolve the dispute over the territories is for the Palestinians to negotiate a final settlement. Until now, the intransigence of the Palestinian Authority’s leadership has prevented the resumption of talks, which offer the only path to an agreement to ensure a peaceful future for Israelis and Palestinians alike.

See my response at 19.20 regarding the Palestinians refusal to negotiate.

Please will someone produce a form of words which will make it possible to express horror at the civilian deaths in Gaza without being thought pro Hamas or anti Semitic?

Just don’t say pro Hamas or antisemitic things

You mean what you perceive to be pro Hamas or antisemitic? There is a difference between the latter and actually supporting Hamas (criminal offence) and being antisemitic (criminal offence), both of which you need to report to the police.