Gary Lineker - foot in mouth again

[onegrumpyoldwoman]

I wish this guy would stick to football or selling crisps

Most recently, he gave an interview to Medhi Hassan (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/12/lineker-appears-to-call-oct-7-attacks-the-hamas-thing/ ) where he appeared to minimise the October 7th Hamas attacks as “the Hamas thing”, whilst falsely stating of the war in Gaza “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”. This statement is absurd hyperbole given that Mr Lineker was born in 1960 and has hence lived through major wars such as Vietnam, Iraq, Iran-Iraq, the Soviet and Western interventions in Afghanistan, and the Syrian Civil War, all of which have cost hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions, of lives.

I do not believe that it is compatible with Mr Lineker’s role as a presenter on Match of the Day, and hence an employee of our national public broadcaster, which is supposed to be politically impartial, for him to take such outspoken stances.

@Scirocco

"The Israeli government and IDF had alternatives to this. Alternatives which would likely have had fewer deaths of Palestinian civilians and which quite possibly could have been more successful in achieving the safe return of living hostages, which should have been a priority for them"

Genuine question- what alternatives did the Israeli Government have that would have been more successful in securing the release of the hostages and preventing a reoccurrence of the 7th October attack.

My opinion was that there were no good options to achieve this.

My answer was to whether I believe that The Israelis would have wiped out Hamas without civilain loss had it been possible. I said I was unsure due to attitudes I had heard from ordinary Israelis concerning Palestinians (pre October 7th).
I think its a fair conclusion to make

Well I’ll take into account it may be influenced by your views and leave it open on whether it’s the case

An extremely technologically and strategically well-equipped force, able to access resources from some of the other most technologically and strategically capable forces in the world, has options. Some of those options are more acceptable to say in polite conversation than others, but even the less palatable ones would likely have had lower death tolls than this.

Targeted strikes, precise removals of individuals and small groups, cyber attacks, etc are all well within the capabilities of the forces available. We've seen evidence of that in recent years and within this conflict. Negotiations were also an option that could have been explored earlier than they were - they might have been productive, or they might not have been, but we'll now never know if earlier negotiations could have been successful in bringing people home.

Didn’t an Israeli hostage shake the hand of their captor as they were freed?

What proportion of citizens are as @Scirocco and @Hoppinggreen say and how many are as we afford to other countries? Despite what some say in conversations

Even if the decision was that a full-scale military operation was the only viable course of action, there were still alternatives to how this has been done.

In the aftermath of Hamas's atrocities, I think many countries would have been willing to provide assistance in planning and implementing an operation to remove them, while minimising civilian casualties.

There are alternatives to using massive bombs to destroy urban areas in which civilians live.

There are alternatives to using AI targeted strikes on people's homes to eliminate targets and their families, when a valid target is defined as 'male'.

There are alternatives to shooting unarmed children, civilians and people surrendering.

There are alternatives to executing doctors.

There are alternatives to killing aid workers and preventing aid reaching desperate people.

There are alternatives to maiming civilians with sniper bullets.

One simple alternative is: don't do those things. Those things aren't eliminating senior Hamas figures or rescuing hostages.

So you think I am lying then?
How would my views (which you don't know beyind the fact that I abhor the deaths of civilians) impact what some Israeli people expressed to me completely unasked?
I actually don't care any more - if genocide apologists can completely alienate people like me who believe both sides to be accountable how can there ever be a fair exchange of views?
The complete inability to accept that Israel is killing thousands of women and children and that they could stop means that I am losing any sympathy I had for Israel - as a nation not as a people.

Does anyone on this thread think Israel would be bombing its own cities and towns as aggressively as it has Gaza if Hamas were deeply embedded within civilian infrastructure? Just wondering...

@EasternStandard Support for the expulsion of Palestinians and Arabs was not a particularly outlying view to hold in Israel in 2016 (as in the survey below), and what I've seen indicates the country's leadership and not-insignificant numbers of the public have shifted somewhat to the right since then. That's not to say all Israelis hold those views. Just like in the UK, though, there is a fairly influential far-right.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

As a nation not as a people

This is why I questioned you, you were speaking about people in your posts. That is citizens not the government.

I’m not sure who you are aiming ‘genocide apologist’ at but if it’s me then you’ve overstepped, my questions don’t show that.

Apologies if you felt that was aimed at you, it was not personal I meant in general.
I would never condemn any group based on religion or ethnicity, just the leaders who make the decisions that led to what I belive is genocide, and Yes, I do believe Hamas is responsible for the awful death toll alongside the people actually sending the bombs

Ok thanks I appreciate both things you’ve said there

I'm quite concerned about how strongly you feel about shutting him up... it seems a very personal vendetta, and is very strange.

I think it's wonderful that he has a voice and he is using it to speak up. I am quite pleased that my licence fee goes towards at least one individual with a conscience... when you consider how far right most of the media and the government is.

We need more like Lineker who are not afraid to speak out ❤️

I'm quite concerned about how strongly you feel about shutting him up... it seems a very personal vendetta, and is very strange.

That's a bit dramatic 😮

when you consider how far right most of the media and the government is.

Are we living in the same country?

If the BBC was any further left it would meet itself coming back.

And the government keeps stealing Starmer's ideas eg removing non-dom status etc, so they are "Conservative" in name only 🙄

How has he put his foot in his mouth exactly?
What has been happening has been the worst thing HE has SEEN in his life- lots of us are aware of images due to social media. Many of the wars we went through didn't show us POV images and videos did they? How many images and videos of the first gulf war do you remember? How many images of dead civilians have you seen from the 2nd? It was filtered. Social media has really changed how many have viewed what is going on.

It's his lived experience- so what exactly has he done here that was wrong- bar express his opinion and concern?

I don't think he's put his foot in his mouth at all.

Very Telegraph.