Gary Lineker - foot in mouth again

[onegrumpyoldwoman]

I wish this guy would stick to football or selling crisps

Most recently, he gave an interview to Medhi Hassan (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/12/lineker-appears-to-call-oct-7-attacks-the-hamas-thing/ ) where he appeared to minimise the October 7th Hamas attacks as “the Hamas thing”, whilst falsely stating of the war in Gaza “I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen worse in my lifetime”. This statement is absurd hyperbole given that Mr Lineker was born in 1960 and has hence lived through major wars such as Vietnam, Iraq, Iran-Iraq, the Soviet and Western interventions in Afghanistan, and the Syrian Civil War, all of which have cost hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions, of lives.

I do not believe that it is compatible with Mr Lineker’s role as a presenter on Match of the Day, and hence an employee of our national public broadcaster, which is supposed to be politically impartial, for him to take such outspoken stances.

@1dayatatime I'm glad that someone has had a go-I realise it was a very difficult request. However, I would question a form of words that puts full responsibility for civilian deaths on one side.

@CurlewKate

"However, I would question a form of words that puts full responsibility for civilian deaths on one side."

Well the responsibility for innocent civilian deaths is with Hamas and the State of Israel. So the solution is either removal of Hamas or removal of the State of Israel or removal of both.

Of these solutions my personal opinion is that the removal of Hamas is the easier and most realistic to achieve compared to the removal of the state of Israel.

I used to do Business in Israel with Israeli people

1. Probably not but I am not privvy to their methods or what others are available to them. I don't think Hamas care about ordinary Palestinians in general
2. Hamas around 70% if I have to put a figure on it

Hmm what you are suggesting is quite bold and it makes me consider if there is your own skew there

Well the responsibility for innocent civilian deaths is with Hamas and the State of Israel. So the solution is either removal of Hamas or removal of the State of Israel or removal of both.

Surely it would be removal of Hamas and removal of the Netanyahu government not the state of Israel

Sadly, I've also encountered this, in the form of dehumanising, prejudiced and hate-filled language, views and behaviour expressed and demonstrated towards Palestinians in particular and Muslims in general. Not only have I encountered it myself, but Israeli friends of mine have also shared with me their own experiences of encountering it.

It’s still a bold assertion in answer to the question posed

Many nationalities speak in ways that would fall into that category

But we don’t suggest what is being suggested as a result re deaths

Are you suggesting that I am not being truthful?
I am neither Muslim or Jewish, I have literally no skin in this game and had no real opinion on the Palestine/Israel situation beyone acknowledging that there had always been atrocities on both sides
I visited Tel Aviv in person twice on Business and also attended a couple of online conferences as we had clients there and we were trying to win more.
My boss was an Indian lady and she warned me that I might hear some uncomfortable political opinions and that I needed to be diplomatic - she also said that she was treated quite well "once they discovered she wasn't a muslim"
I did not start any conversations about Politics at all but was given unsolicited opinions on Palestinians regularly, a lot of which I found quite shocking as I was dealing with educated people who I didn't expect to say the things they did. Perhaps I was unfortunate to just mix with Israelis who held such opinions but of the people I met around 75% said things I felt at a minimum uncomfortable with.
It was assumed that I held the same opinion as I was British.
I am in no way defending Hamas and I dont' think GL was either. It is possible to abhor the deaths of civilians in Gaza and not be a Hamas apologist

And Jewish people of course are some of those who have felt that kind of language and action the most

I am saying equating hearing views on business shouldn’t really end up with this answer in your pp

1. Hard to say, I would like to think not but having heard some Israeli and/or Jewish people describe Palestinians in frankly awful terms I am not completely sure.

Was that in dispute?
Unsure why you need to mention it just because someone highlights anti Palestinian hate they have heard.

@Dulra

"Surely it would be removal of Hamas and removal of the Netanyahu government not the state of Israel"

Well Netanyahu can be removed through a democratic election whereas the same cannot be said for Hamas which runs a brutal dictatorship.

Also whether Netanyahu is removed or not is a decision for Israeli voters and in a democracy it is always possible that he is replaced by someone even more hardline.

Well I can post as I wish but does my mentioning it make you feel uncomfortable?

What was your question?

It wasn’t my question.

The pp answered this one

1. If Israel could eliminate Hamas as a fighting force without killing a single civilian do you think they wouldn't?

With

1. Hard to say, I would like to think not but having heard some Israeli and/or Jewish people describe Palestinians in frankly awful terms I am not completely sure.

Given how many people speak of others I suggest this is a leap that is skewed or possibly more.

You course you can post what you like and no it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable why would it? It just sounded a bit like an excuse for anti-palestinian hate to mention it when you did, but I'm sure that's not what you meant to do.

I know I just thought it was the more logical step as opposed to removal of the Israeli state which you had suggested

No it wasn’t an excuse

It was following on from my point that people all over the world express views of others (and Jewish people are subject to much historically and presently) and it does not lead to the conclusion on deaths that the pp made

The views I heard were not business based, they were expressed by Israelis I was mixing with who assumed I felt the same (presumably) as I never initiated any discussions on Politics.
Politics and Business are not something I mix (within reason)

@Hoppinggreen

Many years ago I used to work a lot with Kuwaitis and I also heard them express some pretty awful opinions on Palestinians as well.

Yes I know they were not business based. I still question your conclusion in answering the question below as you did.

The Israeli government and IDF had alternatives to this. Alternatives which would likely have had fewer deaths of Palestinian civilians and which quite possibly could have been more successful in achieving the safe return of living hostages, which should have been a priority for them.

They chose this.

It's always difficult to think of people hating other people enough to want them dead simply because of ethnicity or faith. But that's how some people view this. They want Palestinians gone from 'their land' - which has been described as dispassionately as a comparison to removing a cockroach infestation.

That may be an upsetting comparison - a human life having equivalent worth as an insect - but it's a comparison that passed the "dinner table test" enough to be expressed fairly openly in some parts of society.

There are many people who of course would not want anyone to die. There are others, some of whom have decision-making roles in this, whose behaviour and views suggest they would not share that perspective.

The option Israelis clearly didn’t have was to ‘eliminate Hamas as a fighting force without killing a single civilian’ and I don’t think you can back up the claim you are making that it wouldn’t be preferable.

And in relation to pp I doubt they know from business trips, they are not meeting the government but citizens so it is their views they are talking about on here

Out of interest what proportion of people in Israel do you have in mind that would be a no to the question?