Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

Maybe Israel could help by not creating millions of refugees.

The pesky Palestinians should really bugger off out of Gaza. It's Egypt's fault if they are being slaughtered because surely they should take them in. After all, they are also Muslims, you know.
Anyway, they all are bloody terrorists, even the unborn ones.
What do you expect the IDF to do? Just blast them all, I say, Hamas or not.
Who cares?

Winston Churchill was a rampant racist, who thought nothing of starving people in India.

The thread is about the bombings in Rafah you out of no where started discussing refugees and why people aren't protesting outside the Egyptian embassy.

The comparison is a valid one.

No it is not. What a terrible thing to say.

I think his red line was a bit of bluster and show, then carry on as usual.

Please explain why it isn't.

Blinken says Rafah offensive has had ‘negative impact’

The US secretary of state says the Rafah operation has had a “negative impact” on humanitarian conditions in Gaza, adding that it is urgent for the Rafah crossing – shuttered since it was seized by Israel last week – to regain operational capacity.

Addressing a news conference in Kyiv, Blinken also warned the enclave could fall into a chaotic power vacuum if no clear, long-term plan is put in place.

So then

Netanyahu says there is no humanitarian crisis in Rafah

The Israeli Prime Minister has denied reports of mass hunger, disease and deprivation in Gaza’s southern city, saying that a humanitarian crisis “hasn’t materialised, nor will it materialise”.

This should not be discussed in the same point as it sounds there is conflation and comparison in a very veiled manner

No, there was no ‘veiled manner’ just a direct response to the following part of a discussion where a poster suggested GB had taken in 40,000 refugees & so shouldn’t others do the same for Palestinians.

I was pointing out that GB was actually not a font of generosity and good will towards Jewish refugees at that time, nor was the USA, simply because most people do not realise this.

onegrumypldwoman had written this:

Who has closed the border is actually in dispute -

https://www.msn.com/he-il/news/other/update-1-israel-and-egypt-trade-blame-over-rafah-crossing-closure/ar-BB1mnKTb?ocid=BingNewsSerp

GB was not responsible for the rise of Nazism in Germany but we still took in about 40,000 Jewish refugees.

It's called 'having humanity'.

Because the Holocaust has NOTHING to do with what is happening now and it is the worst ever genocide in the history of this planet.

Leave it alone!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69012303

Thanks for posting that BBC link @EasterIssland was going to post something similar from the Guardians Peter Beaumont which explains the diplomatic rift in even greater detail - may post it later if it's edited into a shorter format as it does fill in some of the gaps in the BBC article

More on the same topic

Report: Israeli delegation visits Cairo to cool tensions with Egypt

US news outlet Axios reports that a group of Israeli security officials, led by the country’s domestic serucity agency Shin Bet, visited the Egyptian capital for talks with counterpart senior intelligence officials.

The report, citing an unnamed Israeli source, says that the object of this mission is to relieve growing tensions between Israel and Egypt over the Israeli army’s operation in Rafah and the closing of the Rafah border crossing.

If you consider it inappropriate to discuss under these circumstances, it might be worth addressing your concern to the person who first mentioned it, rather than only to someone who responded to them.

I think you do not understand the historical context in which the Holocaust was referred to by me.

You don’t even seem to understand that I was criticising the U.K. and America for their lack of support for Jewish refugees at that time after WW11 even in spite of what had happened to them and everyone knowing what had happened to them. Nothing more.

You did and said nothing wrong ScrollingLeaves and you are correct in that history shows that a lot of Western countries failed to assist people fleeing the Holocaust and where they did, put arbitrary restrictions on who could be helped.

On your earlier query about Egypt, it's about $5000 per person to bribe unsavoury figures to smuggle people out of Gaza. Being illegal, when they reach Egypt they will not be allowed to work and do other things that require I.D. so will have a shadow existence.

Thank you @BelleHathor for your responses about what I had said about GB and the USA regarding Jewish refugees after WW11, and your answer about the $5000pp smuggling fee to escape from Gaza.

As I think I saw most Palestinians have 4 children, and there will be grandparents too, it must be impossible for most people. Then with no work, what then.

@BelleHathor On your earlier query about Egypt, it's about $5000 per person to bribe unsavoury figures to smuggle people out of Gaza. Being illegal, when they reach Egypt they will not be allowed to work and do other things that require I.D. so will have a shadow existence.

There are hundreds of people coming across the Channel to UK that end up in the same position.

The Home Office has admitted that they have "lost", to date, 5,600 asylum seekers who have disappeared into the "Black Economy".

So there must be some benefit in this, otherwise they wouldn't pay smugglers £1000s to get to UK.
So having a "shadow existence" isn't a deterrent, it seems.

Having a "shadow existence" is preferable to no existence.

So are you suggesting illegal people smuggling is a good option for Palestinians fleeing war?

I also don't think you realise how difficult it is to get out of Gaza at the moment

Absolutely, people are desperate, it's heart-breaking, You know Palestinian people, they are a proud people who have survived so much. I also know that most ordinary Egyptian people would do as much to help anyone.

People are having to plead for assistance, knowing the difficulties ahead even if they get out and knowing that they will most likely never be allowed back again. Like the father I was listening to a couple of days ago, he received a message on his phone from the IDF to evacuate from where he was, he stood outside in the street far away from everyone because knowing that the IDF can target using a phones geolocation, he figured if hit at least his family would be safe. It's sick what the Palestinians are going through and a stain on humanity.

So there must be some benefit in this, otherwise they wouldn't pay smugglers £1000s to get to UK.

The benefit is not being dead.
There is a privilege that certain people have that I envy.

Having grown up on a council estate , I know all about this "shadow existence". Cash in hand jobs, exploitation, threats about informing authorities about your status.

So why do it? The recent migration from the Middle East is due to the West misadventures during the "War on terror". It destabilised the region, we trained and armed extremists groups to carry out regime changes. We carpet bombed countries, and droned bloody weddings. People's whole lives have been destroyed, millions killed and displaced. For what?

So they leave, they hustle, struggle and leave. Actions have consequences.

The recent migration from the Middle East is due to the West misadventures during the "War on terror". It destabilised the region, we trained and armed extremists groups to carry out regime changes. We carpet bombed countries, and droned bloody weddings. People's whole lives have been destroyed, millions killed and displaced.

interesting analysis, quite a lot of nuance missing.

Do you remember the USSR invading Afghanistan?
The longstanding Iran/Iraq war?
Saddam Hussein using nerve gas on kurdish villages.?
Assad using chemical weapons on his own people.
Jamal Khashoggi disappearing into bits in the Saudi embassy in Turkey?
The 'war on terror' as a response to 9/11?

But it's all 'our' fault, the countries and governments involved had no agency.

OK

Do you remember the USSR invading Afghanistan?
Absolutely, the Reagan Administration authorised the CIA (MI6 also assisted) to arm and train the mujahideen in order to counter the Soviet Union. They provided weapons that would be used by Al Qaeda in the 2001 killing American and British soldiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

The longstanding Iran/Iraq war?
Yup, read up on the Iran Contra affair:
The Iran–Contra affair (Persian: ماجرای ایران-کنترا; Spanish: Caso Irán-Contra), often referred to as the Iran–Contra scandal, was a political scandal in the United States that occurred during the second term of the Reagan administration. Between 1981 and 1986, senior administration officials secretly facilitated the illegal sale of arms to Iran, which was subject to an arms embargo at the time.[1] The administration hoped to use the proceeds of the arms sale to fund the Contras, an anti-Sandinista rebel group in Nicaragua. Under the Boland Amendment, further funding of the Contras by legislative appropriations was prohibited by Congress, but the Reagan administration figured out a loophole by secretively using non-appropriated funds instead.
where weapons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

Saddam Hussein using nerve gas on kurdish villages.?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/
Never wanting to be on the losing side, Guess who provided Saddam with some of those chemical weapons used to Gas Iranians, yes America. He was a "friend" then to be used against Iran.

Assad using chemical weapons on his own people.
This is still being investigated and the latest from the OPCW from February 2024 is that ISIL likely carried out the attack:

https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/news/2024/02/opcw-identifies-isil-perpetrators-2015-chemical-attack-marea-syria

https://twitter.com/OPCW/status/1760727877354414316

Jamal Khashoggi disappearing into bits in the Saudi embassy in Turkey?
That's on MBS's bodyguards.

The 'war on terror' as a response to 9/11?
Based on a "dodgy dossier" which turned out to be untrue.

As I said, no nuance. You have your angle.