Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

The writer of that article is well qualified to give his opinion.
Exactly an opinion which people can disagree with.

“It shouldn’t need saying that it is absolutely vital for Israel to eliminate Hamas’s capability to continue translating its twisted ideology into physical violence. That means their physical destruction in Rafah. Israel must push on with its plans and not buckle to international pressure, no matter how great. Failure to do so would amount to nothing less than strategic defeat.”

Clear case of someone with a teeny tiny bit of knowledge thinking they are actually intellligent,

Hagari has just admitted the obvious that Hamas isn’t just in Rafah. IDF never fully defeated them in north or central Gaza as fighting has been and is still going on up there. Hagari has now said that after Rafah, they are going back to central and north Gaza to ‘keep fighting Hamas.’

There is no strategic victory to be had in Rafah. Only more death and destruction of innocents.

"We will deal with Rafah in the way which is right for us. I want to tell the public, so that they do not delude themselves: Even after we deal with Rafah, there will be terror. Hamas will move northwards and try to reconstitute itself, even in the next few days. In every place Hamas returns to, including in northern and central Gaza, we will return to operating."
-Daniel Hagari this morning. IDF spokesperson
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/389614

It is both depressing and maddening that IDF keeps moving the goal posts. This announcement is saying Rafah isn’t the last bit of Israel’s assault on Gaza. They are going to just keeping going back and forth, up and down in their tanks while bombing here, there and everywhere as refugees flee before them.

There seems to be no end in sight.

I have seen online that Palestinian workers were shot at near the kerem shalom crossing. Are these aid workers?
Has any aid even gone through

That’s the problem when you’re trying to kill and ideology. You’ll never end it unless you end with all Palestinians

According to a post from @Efacsen above no aid went through

Sounds like they were aid workers
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-its-treating-palestinians-wounded-by-gunfire-at-kerem-shalom-crossing/#:~:text=The%20military%20says%20it%20received,the%20area%2C%20the%20military%20says.

Another tragic accident I'm sure 🙄

they were terrorists is the excuse I was thinking of

So Gaza will be a never-ending conflict zone.

Hamas suggested ‘few amendments’?

What were they then?

Anyone would think that Israel were negotiating with a government who’s aim was to protect the safety of their citizens so they can live in peace and prosperity, not a fundamentalist terrorist group who’s main aim is to kill Jews, spend aid on arms and cause as much suffering as possible for it’s citizens to further it’s cause to wipe Israel off the map.

I wonder if one of the ‘amendments’ suggested was to give themselves up?

It's a good idea I guess if your plan is to rid Gaza of Gazans, one way or another.

Hospitals in the southern Gaza Strip have only three days of fuel left, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Wednesday, due to closed border crossings.

**

A fan of the writers? Not at all, just think that someone with experience of conflicts like this to better placed to give opinions that randoms on MN.

The writer (singular) served in NI, the Middle East and Afghanistan as a long standing senior member of the military so I think he might have a better take on a conflict zone like this than most.

Of course you don’t want to read it, it does not fit with your narrative.

The key difference is that Israel, very reasonably, wants a temporary ceasefire whereas Hamas wants a permanent one.

Then they can gradually spread out across Gaza, take charge again and claim a great victory.

I am not sure what the compromise is here.

From Robert Clark, director of defence and security at Civitas. Prior to this he served in the British Army for fifteen years, including deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.

He feels that there will be no peace while the terror organisation Hamas has the ability to strike Israel. It must be crushed.

Reproducing the article in full as it is behind a paywall.

Israel’s long-anticipated assault on Rafah has begun. The city is thought to contain four brigades of Hamas soldiers, making it the terrorist’s last stronghold in Gaza. The operation is essential to securing Israel’s borders and safety when military operations end. Yet immense international pressure is being applied to Benjamin Netanyahu in an attempt to force a ceasefire on incredibly unfavourable terms.
We in the West should be in no doubt. Nobody – except for Hamas, and its legions of supporters across Gaza – wishes to see this conflict continue. Everybody else wants a meaningful peace. But this cannot be achieved until the terror brigades are dismantled, and their ability to assault Israel brought to a permanent end.
Only last Sunday, four Israeli soldiers were killed during a Hamas rocket barrage near the Kerem Shalom Crossing – hours before CIA Director William Burns flew into Doha to give voice to US concerns for Israeli restraint and lend force to peace negotiations.
Further pressure was applied by the sudden offer of a ceasefire by Hamas negotiators on Monday, which Israel noted fell “far from” its “obligatory demands”. The operation in Rafah is intended to bring Hamas to the table to negotiate properly, and also to free hostages.
This last gets to the heart of the matter. If Hamas truly wanted peace, and an end to the civilian casualties, then it would accept terms, release the remaining hostages, and renounce violence. That it does not is further proof, if any were needed, that it prefers to fire rockets at Israelis than to protect Palestinians.
Meanwhile on the ground the IDF has moved the Givati and 401 brigades into eastern Rafah, aiming to conduct a limited raid into the east of the sprawling settlement. In an urban area with 1.3 million civilians, and several thousand enemy combatants, it’s hardly a show of overwhelming force and aggression many would have you believe.
That hasn’t stopped the growing chorus of criticism. The US has paused a weapons shipment to Israel, the UK’s own deputy foreign minister has declared that the offensive could break international law, the Belgian prime minister is sceptical of continued trading relations with Israel, and EU foreign affairs chief Josep Borrell is apparently working on a proposal to limit trade or pass sanctions.
These suggestions are deeply misguided. The assault on Rafah might not destroy Hamas, but it would certainly devastate the remaining Hamas battalions in the region. Their targeted destruction would be a significant step towards peace.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/08/israel-hamas-rafah-assault-terrorists/

Can you spot anything unreasonable in the ceasefire proposal?

Main amendment is to make it clear a ceasefire is happening as the Israeli version only explicitly included what could be merely a pause in the war:

-In the proposal that Israel approved, and that Egypt conveyed to the Hamas leadership on April 26, the two sides would “work toward achieving a sustainable calm” in Gaza after an initial six-week pause in fighting

-But in the Hamas-approved proposal, that term is clearly defined as a permanent cessation of hostilities and a complete withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Gaza Strip.

Which is safer for the civilians trapped in Gaza? A pause and more war, or a ceasefire?

How about doing some marches for Hamas to give themselves up and allow a moderate, democratically elected government with the first duty to their people’s safety and prosperity to govern Gaza and live alongside Israel in peace?

Funny that I haven’t seen any of that from the purportedly pro Palestinian side.

Did I miss them?

Sure. But seeing as it's an opinion piece in the Telegraph I have a fair idea what the broad view is going to be. It's not that it doesn't fit with my narrative, it's that I don't read shite media, I don't have the time, and the Telegraph is pure shite.

Anyway, it's behind a paywall, so I couldn't read it even if I wanted to.

The names of the writers who come up (two names) do not fit the description you have posted. Both are journalists/editors. Maybe the person you are referring to is named further down but as I've said, I can't see because it's blocked by a paywall.

The PA has been that, but no peace and prosperity for WB and EJ.

There can be no safety and prosperity under occupation.

You really can’t see anything unreasonable in that proposal?

Where’s the bit about Hamas giving themselves up?

Do you not agree that they should?

A simple Yes or No will suffice.

Exactly and to propose that Palestinians try being peaceful is to ignore the many times they already tried that between 1948 and today, and it made no difference. The ethnic cleansing, the apartheid, the persecution, the strangling of their economic capabilities ground on and on.

Hamas “giving themselves up” wasn’t in the original proposal Israel approved prior to Egypt giving it to Hamas, so why would you think it’s unreasonable to not have a term in it that even Israel didn’t put in there? You’re not Israel.