Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

Netanyahu said in the 1970s that Palestinians did not need their own land at all- as they had Jordan!

In 1976 I believe. He has wanted to take over the whole of Palestine, bit by bit, since then- and now to finally take the whole lot. With many queueing on the border waiting to go in :(

@ConnieCounter ,

It’s not a genocide.

Do you really think what is happening to Gaza is worse than what happened in Japan in 1945? They are one of our staunchest allies now.

Do you know how war works at all?

You have asked me my views on many things and I have answered as honestly and fully as I can.

So, a question for you. Was Hamas justified in doing what it did on 7th October. How do you think Israel should have responded?

Well, that’s two questions but I have answered at least 10 of yours, however impolitely phrased.

I strongly believe it is a genocide. That's why it's being looked at in the international courts.

I am not an expert on war, no, but I do know about genocide and this unfortunately meets the threshold.

Are you one of those who thinks an entire country or people has to be wiped out for it to count as genocide? You should look up the relevant Geneva conventions.

Sorry if you think I'm being impolite. I find it hard to keep my cool when people justify, defend and deny a genocide that we're all observing in real time. I find it very upsetting in fact.

Obviously Hamas wasn't justified in doing what it did. I absolutely condemn it in the strongest terms and have done several times on here. I'm amazed you have to ask me that, when I've made it so unbelievably clear that I think that killing innocent people is wrong and disgusting. I don't hold different opinions on the murdering of innocent people based on their religion or cultural background. In fact, every poster I've seen on mumsnet who shares my beliefs on the situation has said the same. Unfortunately that attitude often doesn't go both ways and it's difficult to hear people, yourself included, minimising the crimes against humanity we've seen in the aftermath of the Hamas atrocity.

Israel should have done what they're pretending they're doing (and which you seem to believe)- there are targeted ways of fighting guerilla terrorist groups. Their AI strategies and use of dumb bombs are wiping out families. They're deliberately killing aid workers and journalists, and the families of journalists. They have displaced and starved millions of people. These are all war crimes and should not be happening. Many other countries manage to fight terrorist groups without resorting to genocide. Indiscriminate bombing of highly populated areas will never be acceptable to me.

Japan tortured, raped and killed millions of Chinese people. I think around 20million? I think they committed atrocities in other parts of Asia as well. The use of the atomic bomb was terrible, and I think the west still struggles with the fact that it was done, but after millions dead, tortured, raped and numerous crimes against humanity, you can see the arguments for it being a last resort.

Netanyahu clearly stated in 1978 that Palestinians should not have their own State, as they already have one, Jordan.

@ConnieCounter ,

Thank you for your considered reply.

I do think that there is a popular myth that countries have an almost unlimited supply of smart weapons. This is partially because they like to show them off ever since the videos of bombs going down chimneys in the first gulf war. In reality, smart munitions use the most modern chips and are really expensive and in short supply. That is why most countries resort to ‘dumb’ weaponry (look at Russia and Ukraine).

There is an article I link to below, which I broadly agree with. It is in an Israeli publication but I nonetheless hope you take the time to read it. It is written by General Petraeus who enjoyed great success in Iraq in winning over the civilian population.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-iraq-on-his-mind-us-savior-general-points-at-the-way-to-victory-in-gaza/

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6q8iiRNB_S/?igsh=dWdlZzlqanRsZDh0

Here's a plea from the UN which shows their opinion of how Israel is behaving.

I'll look at your link later. I don't have time now.

Do you really think what is happening to Gaza is worse than what happened in Japan in 1945?
Once again comparing suffering. Suffering is suffering. What do you think of the treatment of the Chinese by the Japanese in unit 731? What are your feelings about the way they treated POWs?
They are one of our staunchest allies now.
This article is a few months old but an interesting read. I wouldn't they are Israel's staunchest allies.
Between Israel and Palestine, Japan practices a discreet balancing act (lemonde.fr)

Was Hamas justified in doing what it did on 7th October.
No of course not.
How do you think Israel should have responded?
By using their modern precision weapons, Mossad's ability to find anybody and everybody anywhere and by remembering that "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

@Newbutoldfather I think the COIN approach may fail in Gaza for the same reasons it failed in Afghanistan.

I believe it is an operational error to be planning for Israeli military to be the primary means by which security would be achieved instead of attempting to work by, with, and through local sources of power, security, and legitimacy.

Crossing to Egypt was costing quite a lot of money according to a testimony I heard of, now I cannot remember where it was newspapers or youtube.
It is heartbreaking to think about it.
But the truth of the matter is that leaving Gaza is not the real solution (not feasible). Getting peace for the Palestinians in their land is.
Let them see that in those negotiating tables.
Not that any of those sitting on them today will be the ones to get peace done for good, because they have proven that they are unable.

I spoke to a family trying to flee Gaza, they were trying raise funds. They needed minimum £5k per person to evacuate. They didn’t have enough funds when I last spoke to them. I can’t stop thinking about them and the children.

The problem many families were having is that they had some funds but not enough to evacuate everyone. Men are only allowed to cross the boarder with families. Some families made the difficult decision to let the women and children go to Egypt while the men are left behind.

I just want to correct myself the cost citied by a family fleeing was 7k to 10k per person. Before the conflict the cost was roughly £350.

Yes, I heard of figures on that range.
It is disgusting to be honest.

So again we're back to the problem where yourself and Petraeus think that the Israelis are doing a pretty good job and are taking care in what they're doing.

I think it's a genocide so it's not a feasible method in these circumstances.

After the war, Israel has a few of its own problems to sort out.

Settlers, the West Bank is not The Wild West frontier in 1835, land grabbing has not been acceptable for a very long time. The Government needs to solve this issue as a priority.

The Government needs to sort out the corruption within it. The Citizens of Israel deserve to have their country run for their benefit.

A country needs to be in control of itself before it can even attempt to control another.

Yes it's awful.

Relevance? So what?

Just wondered if you had a almost clone account. I know now there isn't. No relevance to this board, just wondered.

US says Israel assures it Rafah operations will be ‘limited’

White House national security spokesman John Kirby tells reporters during a news briefing that Israel has informed the US that its operations in Rafah will be focused on blocking weapons and financial support from being smuggled into Gaza.

Let’s see what limited means. So far we have already seen bodies of children

They are saying not a 'full scale invasion' which has been the major concern on this thread

Of course plenty of evil things can happen between the 2 extremes

Ok how come innocent civilians are still being killed then?

It seems off to me that this is happening while they are trying to agree a ceasefire, and I read US have asked allies to not publicly criticise Israel at the moment. I also read this was because they want to persuade Israel to agree to a ceasefire. I can’t work out what it is but something isn’t sitting quite right.

https://x.com/glia_intl/status/1787821991585616056?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

The only hospitals left are being told to evacuate. Sick and evil.