Documenting the horror that is Hamas part two

[stomachameleon]

Part two of the thread
@25milesfromhome were where we?

I had a look at that thread actually. I went straight to what was at that point the last page, and clicked on the last link, which was of a video that claimed to be footage of an Israeli woman boasting she had killed 5 Falestinian babies. Several very similar videos in the same vein posted by the same person, several of whom also said Falestine. Also including one video supposedly of an IDF soldier, who carefully showed only parts of his uniform (i.e. no logos or insignia visible) the whole way through, while apparently also being openly a member of the IDF and happy to talk about how he likes to kill every Palestinian he sees.

The letter P is part of the Hebrew alphabet. Make of that what you will.

Yes I have. I have linked reputable sources to the facts, including the applicable judgement text of President (Emeritus) Aharon Barak of The Supreme Court Sitting as the High Court of Justice of Israel. Where are your sources? You don’t have a single one because you have been incorrect from the start. I’m sorry that you may feel you have egg on your face, but that’s what happens when you pretend to knowledge you do not possess.

Your source is a single opinion from 2006, do you have anything more current pertaining to the present conflict?

The "egg on your face" comment is silly and childish, you're not in a little high school debating society, you're on a thread about terrorist atrocities where you for some reason feel the need to posture and show off.

Please point put where I have minimised rape.

There is a poster on this thread who has done that multiple times but you don't seem to have a problem with them.

@ThickPinkSocks What I didn't do, however, was go on that thread and mock the posters, whatever I may personally think about some of the sources provided. Because that would be highly disrespectful and distasteful.

Yes, the Hamas attack on Oct 7th was an act of war. You don’t need an army to start a war, so this doesn’t mean “Gaza do in fact have an army.”

Yes, Israel is justified in defending itself and engaging in further armed conflict against Hamas in Gaza and elsewhere within Israel.

However, fighting a just war doesn’t mean the rules of war do not apply.
Israel must still abide by the international law, including the Geneva convention.

Fighting a terrorist enemy like Hamas that commits war crimes, doesn’t excuse committing war crimes too. The small benefit is that any captured Hamas militant terrorists are not given the higher standing and rights of POWs.

Israel is facing criticism by even its closest allies on how they are conducting the war in Gaza and SA have filed a case with the ICJ because the harm to civilians is far beyond what it should be.

@Hellenika I've just done a skim search on your document and you appear to have misrepresented it significantly.

It isn't referring to the IDF but to terrorists. And it specifically states that these are not POWs but goes on to specify provisions for their legal treatment.

That is the small section you've copied.

So it neither says what you've claimed nor relates to the situation regarding the kidnapped teenagers.

I'll be looking at it in closer detail tomorrow when I'm on my laptop and we can pick the discussion up then if you like.

You seem to have a problem with me though and I do not understand why. I wrote:
”Yes, they are POWs. It is not legal to rape a POW, but it does happen quite often. I have no doubt that some, if not all, POWs of both sexes will have been sexually assaulted by their terrorist captors.“

And you quoted that^ and then said
“You know, you didn't have to come on this thread. You didn't haven't to write even more post about how WeLl TeChNiCaLlY hamas aren't actually that bad. But you did.
Maybe start your own thread about how your favourite terrorist group gets a bad rep.”

Did you mean to write that to another poster? I’m confirming that POWs while they are not supposed to be raped, it is illegal, that it does happen quite often and that some, if not all, will have been? How is that saying Hamas aren’t actually that bad?! It’s saying they are that bad as in bad enough to rape POWs.

Hadn't noticed the hostages being given the higher rights and standing of pows.....which brings us back to the subject of this thread.

Starting a war, using civilians as human shields, taking civilian hostages, torturing, raping and murdering civilians including children. Creating a propaganda lie that incites hatred in multiple countries.
Inciting the genocide of Israelis.

What have I missed?

Does anyone think that those girls being IDF means that Hamas will treat them better than the other hostages rather than worse?

Because quibbling over whether they are hostages or prisoners of war seems rather irrelevant given that it's a terrorist organisation that has them. Unless you're trying to argue that the girls somehow deserve it.

What did you skim search? You need to read the entire judgement from start to finish.

Or read the excerpts I provided. It absolutely says what I have posted. The “kidnapped teenagers” were IDF soldiers, they were neither kidnapped nor hostages (that is for civilians).

Yes, the judgement discussed the fact that terrorists are not lawful combatants and therefore cannot be POWs.

However, it preambles that discussion by setting out a factual background with fact that the international law of armed conflict applies to Israel’s conflict with terrorists (that it isn’t a domestic, internal conflict), it then includes the definition of combatants that they include the members of the armed forces. Any combatant captured by any enemy are POWs, by definition. It then discusses the definition of civilians and their protections.

Please do read the entire thing tomorrow.
This may also help you in regards to the combatant and POW definition referenced in the judgement:
https://casebook.icrc.org/law/combatants-and-pows
In international armed conflicts (IAC), combatants are members of the armed forces of a party. The main feature of their status is that they have the right to directly participate in hostilities. Consequently, if they fall into enemy hands, they become prisoners of war who may not be punished for having directly participated in hostilities. In return, they may remain in captivity until the end of active hostilities.

As a general rule, members of armed forces that fall under the definition of ‘combatant’ become prisoner-of-war as soon as they are in the power of the enemy and until their release and repatriation.

Because quibbling over whether they are hostages or prisoners of war seems rather irrelevant given that it's a terrorist organisation that has them. Unless you're trying to argue that the girls somehow deserve it.

Giraffe has hit the nail on the head here

Hamas bosses are a delight

"We Are On The Verge Of Conquering Great Heights"

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1744451865230643353

A little bird has just messaged me to say there are several posters from their “secret thread” ? ( not sure what that is ) conspiring together to screen shot and gather information with a view to reporting things they don’t like to an outside body from these conflict threads.

I really don’t think that’s the spirit of a public forum, are people allowed to conspire about other posters behind their back ? Anyway just a heads up, we are under surveillance from the thought and speech police.

No I meant to write it to you. You've come on multiple threads to go after posters who criticise Hamas, lecturing them on why they're wrong like you're in a school debate club. And then you actually fucking accuse me of minimising rape based on nothing, while ignoring the posts actually doing that.

well who knew that santa had an evil twin?

Please, like you don't lurk on that board.

I have nothing to hide, do you?

A little bird has just messaged me...

, are people allowed to conspire about other posters behind their back?

It's ok if you do it by PM though, right?

What board ? They said a secret thread, I’ve no idea whose thread it is.

The issue is that while it is illegal and a war crime to take civilians hostage, it is legal to take combatants as POWs.

Deserve/not deserve is what is irrelevant. If you are a combatant, that is the risk you are under, whether a conscript or a volunteer.

Because they should never have been taken, civilian hostages have priority over POWs in terms of treatment and they come first when negotiating or trying to secure their release through military operations.

This means that securing the release of female POWs are lower priority than male civilians per international law of precedence. Traditional patriarchal cultural attitudes don’t like this legality though and often stick to a “women and children” first mentality. The laws were written when women were a tiny minority in the armed forces, so this is a push/pull that is increasing year on year as more women join the armed forces.

Civilians are entitled to better treatment than POWs. Doesn’t mean that it will be so of course.

Pull the other one.

If you genuinely don't know I'm not going to tell you so you can plonk yourself on there and regale everyone with your rape-apology and Jews did 9/11 theories.

Secret thread 😂

You can only get on if you knowbthr password...

The issue is that while it is illegal and a war crime to take civilians hostage, it is legal to take combatants as POWs.

The issue is that you're blathering on about the legality of taking teen girls as POWs by a terrorist organisation who don't give a shit about the legality of anything otherwise they wouldn't have raped, tortured and murdered families and kids while kidnapping a whole bunch of other people that day.

The issue is that any nominal legal status (like Hamas gives a shit) should be the last thing anyone cares about when considering how Hamas might treat them, and the fact that they were IDF conscripts should make people on here more worried about their condition, not more blasé and wittering on about rules of war.

Transaction:

I have just been reading the Jewish mumsneters board

They are talking about the antisemitism and terrorists support on mumsnet

Someone said they will contact the CST because mumsnet moderators team need better training

Another user on the board suggested that of anyone has screenshots if deleted posts maybe they should private message the user that will talk to the CST

(Apparently someone can not read and has bad compression. However looking at what some posters write I don't think this is a surprise)