Documenting the horror that is Hamas part two

[stomachameleon]

Part two of the thread
@25milesfromhome were where we?

In my opinion…
The Palestinians absolutely have a just cause.
But October 7th was too horrific and so I can not March to support Palestine until Hamas are removed. Also Iran is funding Hamas and Houthi
We are heading for World War III. China Russia and Iran are using what they have to undermine our economy/ society/ values.
I will defend values of freedom tolerance and democracy.

I think in general through SM there is an effort to try as a much as possible to erase the events of October 7th as it does not fit into the pro Palestinian narrative. The subtle (and non subtle) tactics are to dispute maybe one of two events, make insensitive calls for 'evidence' and emphasise some of the military targets on that day. Overall when talking to those that support Palestinians there is very quick diversion from October 7th to the state of the current conflict as if to try and remove what after all instigated this war. I am quite glad we are associated with this event akin to 9/11 as it is something that can be an obvious label for the public and give support to the enormity and savagery of that event. As 9/11 was a watershed moment for the world in its mission against terror so should October 7th.

October 7th has a lot of connection to Western action after 9/11 where Western powers deemed it completely unacceptable that terrorist training based should exist. Over the next few years those based were systematically eradicated and we have eventually scaled down terror in the world (though not eradicated it). Israel cannot and will not afford a repeat of this terror event the tragedy of which has been documented here. If it was not for the IDF the perpetrators of Oct 7th would have continued on their sick murderous rampage and we would have had to hear witness to more atrocities which to be quite frank have made me almost cry.

If this event happened in the UK we would expect our state to respond to its utmost ability to defend itself with the use of overwhelming force to not only destroy the enemy but to leave a lasting message that we respond decisively to such action and there should be no doubt about it.

Sorry I didn’t see you had already posted when I posted

Not Hamas but still

“survivors who accused the militia of starting the March 7 fire and squeezing hundreds of Ethiopians into the center, leading to overcrowding.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1823971/middle-east

Not evidence just a Tweet that caught my eye talking about the evidence we have been looking at:

@Trulywonderful I have seen variations of this but I almost have angst over posting them because I know you will get 'no proof' and sully's of the names of the girls.

A few weeks ago I wouldn't have. However since Christmas the evidence of the female hostages and their families plus some professionals that have worked with the hostages means their is enough information out there.

Frankly those that don't believe the hostages or their families will never believe any amount of evidence you show them. So about time we stopped not posting things because of Owen Jones type posters. So long as there is evidence even if some don't like the source eg Jewish female hostages

#melzohar

There are plenty of Jewish voices challenging that tweet.

That tweet has also been deleted.

Oh Jewish voices

What a totally fucked up thing to post

Are their Atheist, Hindu, Muslim and Christian voices too

Do you understand where you went with this message

Reflect a little about why you wrote "Jewish voices" instead of just plenty of voices

If that was poorly worded, it wasn't intended. The point being it is a tweet which is being challenged even by jewish people who quite obviously were affected by the attacks on 7/10 as having no actual evidence or truth.

It being reposted here shows why it is a stupid and dangerous thing to say.

@kirinm she just asked her for sources. Which I assume Tracy has seen or should wouldn't have posted.

I think if you read the last thread and this one you should find some of the hostage and their families interviews. Plus statements from other professionals that I am assuming is being referred too in that post. However she may well have seen different evidence to the rest of us. All.I can say is from everything we have heard so far their is little doubt that her tweet isn't correct

Please read both threads and what has been documented so far

Plus not every Jewish person has been personally affected by the pogrom or the conflict. Yes most but similar to the holocaust not everyone. So that is by far not exactly proof they are voices anymore meaningful than the average non Jewish person in the street

Thank you for admitting you first tweet was badly worded though. It is better people just own a mistake made rather than what happens on mumsnet sometimes where people try to defend iffyness. Then pages of a thread get filled up with that pointless argument

💔

4 attempted terrorist attacks since last night. Incidents include armed infiltrators from Lebanon, a stone attack injuring a driver, a fatal anti-tank missile strike, and an unsuccessful gunfire attempt in Gush Etzion

Barak Ayalon, 45, and his mother Mira, 76, were killed in the Hezbollah anti-tank guided missile attack on Kfar Yuval in northern Israel when it directly hit his home. Barak's father, 74, is lightly hurt.

100 days and the attacks Do. Not. Stop.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/barak-ayalon-48-identified-as-man-killed-in-hezbollah-anti-tank-missile-attack/

May their memory be blessed

I did notice earlier that there were some attacks today. However didn't put two and two together about it possibly being related to 100 days since the pogrom

Hamas really went for it with rockets fired at Israel on New Year's at midnight didn't they. Plus over the years they seem to like to mark memorable dates or religious holidays with violence. Somehow this seems to amuse them, to try and upset more than just a regular day

Time for Israel to join the ICC so they can prosecute Hamas leaders for using rape as a weapon of war. Knesset should vote for it. Individual rapists can be tried by Israeli military courts, but leaders should be tried at the international level. Throw the book at them and lock them up. They are sitting in luxury in Dubai and one is even in London! If Israel joins the ICC then international arrest warrants can be done tomorrow.

@SummerFeverVenice
Yes and the occupying force in Israel that are detaining Palestinian prisoners should also be prosecuted by the ICC for raping and threats of rapes to women to try and coerce a confession from them.

www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14020914000770/Repr-Palesinians-Sbjeced-Sexal-Vilence-in-Israeli-Prisns

@anotherlevel

A transnational feminist, anti-imperialist organization
And I stopped reading there..... all credibility went out the window.

Where is the evidence that you shout about needing all the time?

@stomachameleon wow. Denying the rape of Palestinians even happened because you question the source. If you do a search there are plenty more sources that will tell you that Palestinians were also threatened with rape in prisons and suffered sexual assaults. But I guess they don't matter to you do they.

All police forces and armies around the world have issues of vile men that take advantage of the position to abuse or rape women. Unfortunately that is a fact.

Is there evidence this is a official tactic or evidence this is justified as a exstemist religious belief in the case of Israel such as Hamas or ISIS etc. There appears not to be any evidence of this.

Is when an allegation or evidence of misconduct from an IDF soldier investigated. It does seem to be but the outcome of such investigations sometimes disputable, yes.

However what I do know is this:

According to the statistics approved by the Supreme Judicial Council in Gaza, not a single case of rape has been registered before the courts

According to Hamas rape and sexual abuse and child abuse does not exsist in Gaza. Frankly as in every country around the world these things sadly clearly happen. We already know Hamas are a bunch of rape deniers. This has been pulled up by multiple agencies over the years as a serious issue.

So do I believe them when they say that nobody was raped during the pogrom?

There is a difference between individuals in the armed forces commiting sexual assaults, and being rightly punished for it, and the use of sexual assaults as a mass weapon of war.

The Israelis arrest and punishment rapists in their armed forces.

I can guarantee you none of the 7 October rapists will be punished by any Hamas command structure. They were operating as planned.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-january-14-2024/

Another sport related story and what a surprise! Israeli player investigated for incitement for referring to the hostages. So scored a goal for his Turkish team... wears a bandage with 100 days on it...investigated for inciting people to hatred and hostility.

Wow.

I don't know if this is on elsewhere but Hamas have released new footage including of Noa whose mum is dying.