Documenting the horror that is Hamas part two

[stomachameleon]

Part two of the thread
@25milesfromhome were where we?

The person in question is being passive aggressive in their writing. They know exactly what they are doing and their attempt at subtlety is not washing.

When you are arguing the toss about the capacity in which these young girls are being held, you've crossed a very thick prohibited line. As I said its deliberately being passive aggressive to try and get others to doubt their sanity. In other words, mega gaslighting.

Of course you can accuse others of a crime without proof, especially since victims of crime often DON'T have evidence to hand in order to accuse. Even more so in cases of armed conflict.

What can't be done by the courts is convict somebody of a crime without evidence. That's where you're confused.

Why have you focused exclusively on alleged Israel Defense Force lies as opposed to those from Hamas including their Ministry?

It's curious.

Because obviously, we were talking about what is true and what is not in respect of the captives.

I was pointing out that IDF have previous for massively lying….ie. The 40 beheaded babies. The baby cooked in the oven. The 200 or so Israelis which turned out to be Hamas bodies. The 100’s of men stripped to their underwear and held at gunpoint which IDF plastered all over twitter as Hamas when they were not.

I’m pointing out these lies which were actually debunked as lies and propaganda, is it any wonder we have to second guess anything IDF actually says to see whether it is true or not ? The thread was about the IDF soldiers being held captive but being presented to the world as young and CIVILIAN teen girls to garner more sympathy. Nowhere in the news reports were these girls described as IDF soldiers, Fact.

If you want to broaden the subject, let’s talk about the thousands of innocent women and children held without trail in Israeli jails and subjected to daily mass torture and sexual abuse as well. Or don’t they matter.

@Livinginanotherworld I'm not sure if you realise but this thread is called "documenting the horror that is Hamas part two."

You want to " talk about the thousands of innocent women and children held without trail in Israeli jails and subjected to daily mass torture and sexual abuse as well. "

There are many threads for that.

Derailing a thread is against MN talk guidelines.

Thank you.

@Livinginanotherworld

None of the things you list were "debunked lies".

Hamas did kill multiple children including babies. Some were burned and beheaded. There was confusion as one report mentioned the number of dead children, another the beheading and it got conflated. Terrorist supporters twisted that to minimise the atrocities.

We have no idea if the men captured in Gaza were or where not Hamas members. It's only claimed they are not by sources that are anti-Israel, repeated until it is accepted as "fact".

It's certainly not true that the young girls kidnapped were "presented as civilians". They're clearly in army issue t-shirts in the images. Why shouldn't they garner sympathy regardless? They're still captured and abused young women.

The only person wishing to "broaden the subject" ie derail the thread is you. However there are plenty of other threads you can post on if you wish to spend your time posting how much you hate Israel.

That last sentence was in response to @DownNative and not as a derailment as you well know. “Broaden the subject” were my words in response to her asking “why I was focusing exclusively “.

I wonder if you'd like to reiterate that you think Chen Almog, the released hostage, is a liar, since you're here?

Nothing in this is actually what could reasonably be described as "broadening the discussion".

It is wholly fixated on the Israeli Defence Force and completely, very consciously ignores Hamas who cannot be described as a truthful organisation.

By definition, terrorist groups are not in the business of being truthful. They're in the business of manipulating, distorting and deflecting.

Since this thread IS titled "Documenting The Horror That Is Hamas", its very clear your intention is to deflect attention away from Hamas.

That's thread derailment.

That's thread derailment.

That's a useful reminder for me also not to get sucked into the details of the derailment, and to stick to the fact of it. Thank you.

You're completely correct and it's also out of the scope of the thread itself for posters to focus on the Israeli Defence Force.

As you correctly said, there are other threads for that and this one is called "Documenting The Horror That Is Hamas".

I'm afraid that, in my long experience of terrorism, the willingness to deflect attention away from terrorist groups is what sneaking regardism looks like.

Interesting post... and reality for those that speak out.

Yes, this is the kind of thing that terrorist groups here in Northern Ireland did to people in what they viewed as "their" areas.

Coercive control of the local population is highly common amongst terrorist groups. This includes murder of "their" own communities.

Dissenting groups are NOT tolerated by terrorist groups. Those who dissent will often find their own children are subsequently indoctrinated by terrorist groups knowing they're almost completely powerless to prevent it.

https://twitter.com/paulrubens/status/1744702628984988064

This one is more of a horror that extends beyond Hamas. The excitement in his voice, the glee on his face as he talks about 7 October like it was the best day out ever. An ordinary person.

This is so true.
I feel very sad for ordinary Palestinians - they cannot speak out against the terrorists who live amongst them and it must be agonising to worry about your sons being brainwashed by thugs who pose as heroes.
We know Hamas is being funded by Iran and Iran are using Hamas for their own nefarious agenda. The Palestinians are pawns in all of this and it is unjust and immoral.

Important to remember that all terrorists are “ordinary people “but all “ordinary people “are not terrorists. ( I say that because it’s horrible to read about people gloating over savagery and it’s easy to think they’re represent a majority when they don’t. )

Is that not one of the journalists?

I just googled, and yes that is one of the photo journalists. He's mentioned in the below article

www.ap.org/ap-in-the-news/2023/media-watchdog-says-it-was-just-raising-questions-with-insinuations-about-photographers-and-hamas

@Limeandsodaontherocks absolutely agree with you. There are many, many innocents tragically caught up in this conflict.

Is that not one of the journalists?

I think so now that you say! Is it this guy?

https://twitter.com/HonestReporting/status/1744389317332550100

Yes, that's the one. I think they were both being defended by Reuters, NYT etc last month. Maybe they'll retract that support now?

But this does not mean that a terrorist group doesn't have support within the community they seek to coercively control.

PIRA and UVF never, ever had the capability to develop Northern Ireland wide support, but they did succeed in creating ghettos of support.

Hamas is a completely different kettle of fish and the level of support they (and others!) have within Gaza is genuinely high.

There is a minority of Gazans who don't support these groups and these are the dissenting voices who are not tolerated.

That's why the Son Of Hamas now lives in the United States.

Dissenters are highly valuable as informers, but routinely face the risk of death. So you'll not hear dissenting voices from Gaza in a major way for a long time to come.

Another example of how Northern Ireland cannot be usefully compared to Gaza. It is contrast That's illuminating instead to bring out the differences.

A journalist enjoys the hamas killing and raping. He was there during a lynching.

Ordinary citizens joining in, cheering the slaughter.

Wow.

Dreadful.

Disgusting.

@DownNative

Interesting. I wonder if that was why medics publically denied tunnels beneath hospitals. It would be a death wish to publically say Hamas were routinely in and out of them.