IDF admits 'extensive collateral damage' in Christmas Eve refugee camp strikes

[Silence1]

I first heard of this on Christmas Eve when someone shared an Instagram post on here I think. According to some posters we shouldn't believe Insta and the death figures will be unreliable coming from Gaza.
This was Israeli jets, presumably well trained professional pilots and they used the wrong type of munition? FFS

"Two strikes hit seven residential buildings in Maghazi, killing an estimated 86 Palestinians and injuring many more, the UN statement said. An unknown number of people were also believed to be trapped under the rubble."

All sound so familiar, in fact I've reached the point I don't believe the idiotic IDF and extremist Israeli Govt. More like it was just a giant FU from them. So brave using their air force to obliterate innocent people.

"Speaking to public broadcaster Kan news, an Israeli military official said: "The type of munition did not match the nature of the attack, causing extensive collateral damage that could have been avoided."
They said the incident was being investigated further.
Asked about the report, the IDF told the BBC that it "regrets the harm to uninvolved individuals, and is working to draw lessons from the incident".
The military said its jets had struck two targets adjacent to an area where Hamas operatives were located but that additional buildings were also hit during the strikes."

And lucky for them! Meanwhile why don't Hamas use them for good or humanitarian purposes when Israel pulled out in 2005?

Will anything come of this in terms of consequences? Or can Israel just say sorry we blew up nearly 100 civilians including children. Oopsie daisy.

I'm sure you do not to be honest!

@ohfourfoxache read the New York Times article and investigation? I feel like with your shared experience you might dig deep and show some empathy.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount that posters like you decide to speak for Israelis and try and dictate how they will and won't feel after. I imagine a sense of relief, a new government and some peace. Oh and renewed relations with the Saudis etc.

I think trying to elicit 'communal grief' might be quite difficult as the kibbutz owners would attest to after the last time to trusted Gazan's to come in and share resources. They would tell you that themselves but they are all dead.

I don't need you to patronise me.

A threat of what exactly?

It's a statement of fact. You've embarrassed yourself with a response which lacks maturity, to say the least, and it will be visible to all forever. At least MN is anonymous.

No one is answering your question because no one can quite believe that you hold such strong opinions but after so many weeks of conflict you still do not seem to know about issues with building permits in Gaza and what happens if you build without Israeli permission. Next you'll be asking why Hamas hasn't drilled wells.

@stomachamaleon are these the same casualties harmed by “friendly fire”(ie IDF?)

do hamas care about the people they represent ?

The IDF certainly don’t

@stomachamaleon and it never ceases to amaze me how people can underestimate the impact of yearning for hiraeth

Lets start from the position that people are fundamentally good. When all this is over, it’ll only be the evil bastards of this world who sit back and think that all the killing and suffering will have been worth it

There is wishful thinking, but I do know that one thing drilled into military spokespersons is to never publicly admit to a war crime against your enemy. This one just did. This is a big red flag. Who knows what else is going on beneath the surface.

Independent analysis did show there was no evidence Hamas had been using the tunnels near Al Shifa hospital in recent years.

I do not think you have glorified violence, that was in reference to some of the appalling ways in which Israeli politicians have spoken about the Holocaust.

but thats the thing, just because theres no evidence, whos to say it was not covered up, etc or then it depends on what they classify as evidence, as seen in many episodes of spooks, if the enemys are good at covering their tracks etc

@Tescos1 indeed

Cover ups are of course possible

Conversely it is not outside the realms of possibility that the evidence wasn’t there in the first place

true on both counts, id prefer to read the various intelligence services files, maybe then we would have a more complete or semi complete puzzle of whats truly happening on the ground.

You are supposed to have evidence before you attack a hospital and kill patients and staff. You aren't supposed to just do it and see what happens, that's a war crime. These are real people that you are talking about, real people that Israel killed for what would appear to be no reason.

As they say "In war, truth is the first casualty."
a military maxim attributed to Aeschylus, the father of Greek tragedy.

thats the thing whos to say what their intelligence officers knew, how many times from our own wars have our intelligences services knew x but to the public we did not know x etc

This isn’t an episode of spooks.

i was using it as an example, that said to change that example how many times in our own history books in various conflicts did the security services know about x in x wars or conflicts and what the public knew was different ?

Many times what the media portrays can be different (based on history books of confirmed intelligence operations from the past) than what the actual truth is and what the various intelligence services know.

Examples:

World War II: Codebreaking and Deception

Security Services Knowledge:
During World War II, Allied codebreakers, such as those at Bletchley Park, had significant insights into Axis communications. They were able to decrypt messages and gain intelligence on enemy plans and strategies.

Public Knowledge:
The general public, however, was often unaware of the details of codebreaking operations and the extent to which the Allies had insights into Axis activities.

Cold War Espionage: The Cuban Missile Crisis

Security Services Knowledge:
The Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 was a pivotal moment in the Cold War. U.S. intelligence agencies, particularly the CIA, gathered information on Soviet missiles in Cuba, leading to the tense standoff between the United States and the Soviet Union.

Public Knowledge: The public was not initially aware of the presence of Soviet missiles in Cuba. The U.S. government initially kept this information classified, and it was only later declassified that the full extent of the crisis became public knowledge.

Iraq War and Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs)

Security Services Knowledge:
Leading up to the Iraq War in 2003, intelligence agencies, particularly in the United States and the United Kingdom, provided assessments suggesting the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Public Knowledge:
The information presented to the public, especially regarding the certainty of WMDs in Iraq, was later found to be flawed. The disparity between intelligence assessments and what was publicly communicated led to significant controversy and investigations.

Post-9/11 Surveillance Programs

Security Services Knowledge:
In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, intelligence agencies expanded surveillance programs to prevent future terrorist threats. Programs like the NSA's warrantless wiretapping were conducted with significant secrecy.

Public Knowledge:
The extent of these surveillance programs, including the collection of metadata on communications, was not initially known to the public. Whistleblowers like Edward Snowden later revealed the scope of these operations.

@Tescos1 maybe start a thread about your theories elsewhere. This thread isn't the place for it.

It was expanding on my original comment based on other users replying to it, i was adding more information to confirm my point. but my apologies im not intending to digress from the main op's points.

Another example

1956 Suez Crisis

Israel attacked, but we went in with France as the peace keepers

At the time, we were the heroes! The good guys!

In reality we were just trying to carve up Nasser. Unknown at the time of course

But public knowledge goes both ways….and sometimes it reveals arseholes after the event

Fair points