Theories on why the US government are making themselves complicit in war crimes to support Israel

[PeasfullPerson]

What are they getting out of this? Enlighten me.

How do people on MN KNOW people in the UK and the US do not support Israel? The noisy minority may, many people support Israel in both countries and do not believe the terrorist organisation Hamas’ lies.

Of course the majority of people in the UK support Israel. If they didn't they would by default support Hamas.
People don't want to shout about it because they don't want to be bullied by the Pro Palestinian lobby. Nor do they want to be associated with the terrible civilian casualties in Gaza.

Of course the majority of people in the UK support Israel. If they didn't they would by default support Hamas

Would they? Why?

Lying about what? They aren't lying. They just didn't know because their research is so superficial

Who are “they”?

Why would people who don't agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza be supporting Hamas. Does this mean that people who support Israel agree with what they are doing?

@Molymoly
I don't know enough about military tactics to know whether Israel is doing all it can to protect the human shields but I do know I don't support terrorists who invade, rape, mutilate, take hostages, kill civilians and take pride and joy in atrocities.

So you don’t support israel then?

Where did I say I don't support Israel? I was replying to the poster who said if people don't support Israel they must support Hamas.
You can support Israel but at the same time not agree with what they are doing, that doesn't mean you support Hamas.

Thanks! @FOJN thats a very comprehensive exploration of the issue. Hopefully this will eventually be argued in court and any perpetrators held accountable.

What's even more interesting is that it was published by the Atlantic Council. They're a very powerful Lobbying group often read by politicians around the World but especially in Washington. That they've published this indicates that they're trying to communicate to Congress that they could be in legal hot water and maybe it's time to look for an off ramp.

The Atlantic Council is aware that appearing to stand by while International law is breached will diminish America's influence and standing in the International community and damage it's interests in the long term.

BelleHathor It seemed like a pretty comprehensive summary of the discussions I've listened to about this issue.

I'm generally pretty sceptical about think tanks because it can be difficult to find out exactly who funds them but hopefully the Atlantic Council are reasonably decent.

You're correct, and most Americans who are a generation or more away from their immigrant roots are fairly ambivalent about US policy towards their ancestral homelands. People with Italian ancestry don't take a special interest in US-Italian relations, etc. We consider ourselves Americans above all. Where Grandma and Grandpa grew up is an interesting bit of family history, but not especially relevant politically.

@MMissConductUS thats very much my experience.

The US is certainly taking a step closer to being implicated in Israel's war crimes
Israel used U.S.-made white phosphorus weapons in South Lebanon attack - The Washington Post

FOJN Depends on what you mean by good and I share your skepticism.

The Atlantic Council is a typical think tank aka a front for selling influence and access to politicians and pushing policies that benefit their benefactors.
They're extremely connected and good at it. Our government even donates.

Some of their scandals listed here: https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/atlantic-council/

BelleHathor

Thank you, that is a very useful resource.

I see one of the Board members is under investigation in relation to Burisma.... the gravy train is on a circular track!

FOJN No problem at all, it is all one big grift an extremely small world. Burisma is the Ukrainian Company that Hunter Biden (who has no experience in the Energy sector) was paid $400k to sit on the board whilst Joe Biden was vice president. It's all about access to influence.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/email-hunter-biden-raises-fresh-questions-about-his-tax-dealings-n1250973

There's a new poll out today from the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/majority-of-americans-back-israel-as-democrats-split-over-war-with-hamas-wsj-poll-finds-030f22c2?st=jx2sohj3aybwv1o&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

More non-combatant Gazans will certainly die as a result of Israel's actions but that's what war is like. The IDF doesn't kill them intentionally.

Like fuck they don’t. The whole aim of Israel and the IDF is to kill as many Palestinians as is possible for them to get away with. May they reap what they have sown.

May they reap what they have sown.

And what do you mean by that?

@petuniasandpetals it's not a football game. What a stupid thing to say. I don't know anyone who supports Israel and they definitely don't support hamas. No one supports genocide or terrorism and its ridiculous to frame it in this way in the first place.

@Boomboom22
Your comment is the one that uses a game of football as an analogy. I would not speak in such crass terms.
In war there are sides. Do you suggest we just let Hamas do whatever they want?
I guess you would like to us all to sit round a table. Unfortunately Hamas don't operate like that.
If you don't know anyone who supports a democratic state fighting for her existence may I kindly suggest you change your social circles.

The whole aim of Israel

Reap what they sow

What on earth are you talking about.

Some of them were journalists who have been released. Who knows who all the others are.

What on earth are you talking about? You just lie.

Well that’s disappointing! And interesting considering the research was finished a day after the other poll. Perhaps there will be more research tomorrow which frames the questions in a different way. Not that it would surprise me that much to learn that people do support what is happening, we as a human race have a track record of condoning and taking part in hideous behaviour.

WSJ
The WSJ poll was conducted among 1,500 registered voters from Nov. 29 to Dec. 4. It carries a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points.

Pew Research Center
Pew Research Center conducted this study to better understand Americans’ views of the current war between Israel and Hamas. For this analysis, we surveyed 5,203 adults from Nov. 27 to Dec. 3, 2023. Everyone who took part in this survey is a member of the Center’s American Trends Panel (ATP), an online survey panel that is recruited through national, random sampling of residential addresses. This way nearly all U.S. adults have a chance of selection. The survey is weighted to be representative of the U.S. adult population by gender, race, ethnicity, partisan affiliation, education and other categories. Read more about the ATP’s methodology.