Theories on why the US government are making themselves complicit in war crimes to support Israel

[PeasfullPerson]

What are they getting out of this? Enlighten me.

It does look like Biden is losing support in the US, particularly amongst young voters, which is possibly why the US is pushing to have it resolved sooner rathe than later.
"According to a recent NBC poll, a striking 70% of voters ages 18 to 34 say they disapprove of Biden’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war. A Pew poll published this week charted a similar trend, with just 19% of Americans under 30 approving of the president’s response."
Israel-Gaza war sets Biden at odds with youth of America | US politics | The Guardian

It is telling that the counter argument is not clear, accurate or articulate but simply shouting down

Seems fairly clear to me.

Pulled out, yet kept people firmly behind a wall rationing electricity, water etc.

Yep, no problem there that you can see 1dayatatime?

It has certainly been alleged

Oh, so not proven then?

@Anotherdayanotherdiet

"Pulled out, yet kept people firmly behind a wall rationing electricity, water etc."

Yep, no problem there that you can see 1dayatatime?"

+++

So my post was to point out to @HeidiInTheBigCity that her post see below was factually incorrect in relation to Gaza.

"No, of course Israel "did not cross the border" - that would be because they have been "across the border" all along! They, literally, have been illegally occupying the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and East Jerusalem since 1967"

Rather than concede this point in relation to Gaza the counter argument then became what about keeping people behind a wall and rationing water and electricity. At no point did I reference walls, water or electricity.

Can you see how in order to have an informed, grown up and educated debate on this topic and more importantly a solution it is essential to debate based on facts rather than emotion.

@jammysocks So your analysis would be what?

@HeidiInTheBigCity One thing is clear - there have indeed been thousands of casualties in Gaza, including thousands of civilians. No one should downplay this fact.

It's a tragedy and people are suffering. However, there are some glaring questions that need to be answered:

(1) per Hamas's own figures, most days, Israeli air strikes only killed women and children. How is it that Israeli bombs magically bypass men? Can you explain that?

You've seen the scenes from Gaza. There are plenty of men coming out of the rubble. Yet somehow Israeli bombs don't kill men.

(2) according to Interpol, it generally takes various weeks to identify bodies after a disaster. To this day, Israel is still counting the death toll from October 7. To reiterate, Gaza in the midst of a humanitarian catastrophe and is a disaster zone, lacking in electricity, internet, and other basic resources.

How is it that Hamas is capable of immediately identifying the exact number of deaths by name, gender, and even ID number even while Gaza is a disaster zone?

(3) It is estimated that Hamas has some 20,000-40,000 fighters in Gaza. How is it that, miraculously, per Hamas, virtually none of them have been killed?

(4) How is it we’ve seen many people claim on these boards that Israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza but is also somehow missing all combat-age men?

(5) How many of those casualties come from misfired rockets? Between 15-20 percent of Hamas rockets misfire and land within the Gaza Strip.

(6) How many of those casualties were actually terrorists killed in Israeli territory on October 7?

We might as well also mention the Iron Dome at this point. Hamas has fired 11,000 rockets into Israel. Aimed at civilians. The only reason there aren't many many more civilian casualties in Israel is because Israel spent billions of dollars to protect their people. It's not because "this war is so uneven and one side doesn't even have a military." It's because one side cares about its people and one side wants its people to be martyrs.

@Livelovelaugh028384

You say civilians are not being attacked say that to the men that were stripped and humiliated. Um sorry, it’s not possible to take you seriously with statements like this. These men are Hamas terrorists. The ones that raped, maimed, sexually mutilated, kidnapped murdered and so on innocent Israeli men, women, elderly (including holocaust survivors), toddlers and babies. You can tell a terrier from a civilian, it’s quite easy. The terrorist is the one surrendering his AK-47.

I hear terrorists are particularly compliant when taking multiple takes of the same scene.

Even the BBC had picked up on this and is calling it fake.

😂

Shhh 🤫, maybe the memo with updated talking points hasn't gone out yet.

"I hear terrorists are particularly compliant when taking multiple takes of the same scene.

Even the BBC had picked up on this and is calling it fake."

How did he manage to keep a hold of both of his guns while he stripped down to his underwear? Surely you'd have him surrender his guns before having him strip? Honestly, it's like a parody. It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they're evil child murderers.

Can you see how in order to have an informed, grown up and educated debate on this topic and more importantly a solution it is essential to debate based on facts rather than emotion

You said Israel no longer occupies Gaza. That is what I was responding to.
Gaza is still considered occupied due to the blockade. The can cut off water supply’s etc so still have quite a lot of control over Gaza which, after all is not an independent state but a relatively small patch of land into which a bunch of people have been herded into and (literally) fenced in.

Also, not wishing to be rude but your post kind of implies yiu don’t know much about the background of all this, so here’s a potted history from the history books and primary sources (not just some dude with a TiK Tok / Instagram account).

Israel accepted the UNO partition plan in 1947.
The Arab League rejected it.

Israel legally came into existence in May 1948.
Sadly, Palestine did not (see above).

At that precise moment a 5-Arab Nation Army attacked the new Israel with the intention of destroying it.

The Arab armies spectacularly failed.

In that war, yes, Israel did take more land than they received in the partition plan, but they were fighting for survival (a defensive war turned into an offensive one - and interestingly in this civil war the Arab side used a great deal of sexual violence against Israelis as a weapon of war so they truly have form for it, meanwhile Israel did awful things too, like poisoning wells for example).

Jordan took the West Bank, Egypt the Gaza Strip. Palestine ceased to exist.

They could have set up a proto-Palestinian state in those areas, built, invested in infrastructure. But no, they preferred to do nothing for the Palestinians in the refugee camps, who sadly paid the price of the Arab failures.

Throughout the next 75 years, some Arab states recognised the State of Israel. But the PLO response was "No peace, No recognition, No negotiations" (they literally said that after they lost the six Day war and Israel said “Hey have your land back, just give us peace in return…please!”).

In 2000 at Camp David, Yasser Arafat walked out on the best deal he had ever been offered.

And here we are in 2023, and the Palestinians in Gaza are represented by a fascistic death cult that teach infant school children to hate Jews.

Also, if you really want to know about terrorising ordinary people (Israelis) on a daily basis, look up the first and second intifadas.

@HeidHeidiInTheBigCity Israel withdrew from Gaza a long time ago. It is untrue to say Gaza was occupied ny Iarael in recent times. Hamas took control & has not held elections & spends its money on rockets fired at Israel.

It is untrue to say Gaza was occupied ny Iarael in recent times.

I’m not repeating myself. I can’t be bothered.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet

"Gaza is still considered occupied due to the blockade. The can cut off water supply’s etc so still have quite a lot of control over Gaza which, after all is not an independent state but a relatively small patch of land into which a bunch of people have been herded into and (literally) fenced in."

+++

So your counter argument is to change the definition of the word occupation. To occupy a country you need to be physically present in that country.

The US blockaded Cuba during the missile crisis but it certainly didn't occupy Cuba. Egypt closed the border to Gaza cutting off supplies along with a big wall across the border from 2012 due to terrorist attacks - but no one would suggest that Egypt occupied Gaza. Britain blockaded Germany in both WW1 and WW2 but this was most definitely not occupation.

A lot of the top dogs in the USA have dual Israeli citizenship. I mean a very high percentage compared to the general us population.
Can't really say the same for Palestinian Americans.
AIPAC is also very influential

So your counter argument is to change the definition of the word occupation. To occupy a country you need to be physically present in that country.

The US blockaded Cuba during the missile crisis but it certainly didn't occupy Cuba. Egypt closed the border to Gaza cutting off supplies along with a big wall across the border from 2012 due to terrorist attacks - but no one would suggest that Egypt occupied Gaza. Britain blockaded Germany in both WW1 and WW2 but this was most definitely not occupation

It isn’t just an embargo though is it? Israel controls who can enter Gaza and who can leave. It can cut off its water and electricity supplies etc.

Give it a rest with the Hamas propaganda. Israel is not committing war crimes. More non-combatant Gazans will certainly die as a result of Israel's actions but that's what war is like. The IDF doesn't kill them intentionally.
Unlike Hamas, whose surprise attack on 7/10 deliberately killed, raped and tortured 1,200 Israelis, mostly civilians.
Now that's a war crime - or it would be if Gaza was any sort of proper country.
Regardless of the co-ordinated whining from anti-Semites the world over, there will be no ceasefire until the last Hamas psychopath the IDF can find has been killed. Get used to it.

@1dayatatime
So your counter argument is to change the definition of the word occupation. To occupy a country you need to be physically present in that country.
Yes, this is such a problem in general - it's impossible to rationally discuss what's happening when so many words and concepts are being distorted then thrown around with abandon to the extent they're becoming meaningless and unhelpful - occupation, ethnic cleansing, genocide, apartheid, Zionist.

Yes, this is such a problem in general - it's impossible to rationally discuss what's happening when so many words and concepts are being distorted then thrown around with abandon to the extent they're becoming meaningless and unhelpful - occupation, ethnic cleansing, genocide, apartheid, Zionist.

I’m not plucking it out of thin air though. The UN considers Gaza to still be occupied due to the blockade.

Do you seriously not think Israel is committing war crimes? Their government spokespeople call Palestinians children of darkness, out loud on TV. Some songs that are promoting genocide have made the top of the charts in Israel.

You are correct. A lot of people do not understand that Gaza is not a separate entity and is legally part of the "Occupied Territories" along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

They have a rudimentary understanding of the meaning of "Occupation" based on it's dictionary definition and media has done a terrible job of communicating it's meaning in International Law.

As Francesca Albanese,
UN Special Rapporteur explains: "Israel cannot claim the right of self-defence against a threat that emanates from the territory that it occupies, that is kept under belligerent occupation."
https://x.com/ajitxsingh/status/1724488544335392943?s=20

Full Presentation here:

How did you get so many thing wrong?
Not a single fact was told on your post.