Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

You have taken 5 lines without the context of the preceding 4 lines which say

''The imagery moving north to south showed 47% to 59% damage between 7 October and 22 November in northern Gaza, 47-58% damage in Gaza City, 11-16% in Deir al-Balah, 10-15% in Khan Younis and 7-11% in Rafah, the area closest to the border with Egypt''

We are now almost another 4 weeks on from 22 Nov during which time there has been intensive bombing in Gaza City, Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis so those last figures will no longer be accurate .

It seems possible that the 60% figure which is commonly quoted comes from the damage to northern gaza on 22 Nov of 47-59% [now more]

And as you say yourself only destroyed/very damaged buildings are being counted

So I still maintain that 18% is an outlier

I'm not sure why you say '' Some suggested that Hamas control what the local journalists are allowed to show'' - these results were from international private companies using satellite images which Hamas could not influence

But really the main point here is that even tho' 'everything' hasn't literally been destroyed a great deal has and it may well feel like everything to people living there

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

All deaths in conflict are wrong but to get it in perspective the number of Israeli deaths are incredible low compared to Palestinian

@Efacsen

The reason I took the 5th bit not the proceeding bit is because it summarised total damage. It's your link, not mine, you shared it and I commented on it so don't blame me if your figures in the story you shared are out of date. 🙄

Some suggest local journalists share what Hamas allows refers to the pictures of damaged buildings and people dying or injured. Hamas love that being shared whilst they hide away. Not the aerial pictures in this mainstream news that wasn't what I meant. Hamas control and show what they want as in buildings. They won't show the 80% or if you will 70 % or 60% undamaged naturally. They have an agenda which many dance along to and don't question.

I agree that many wouldn't want to live there. The people of Gaza deserve better than the hamas mob they have that run everything there . They have done nothing but damage Gaza in their twisted aims.

I shared the article as an interesting description of how contentious and difficult it is estimating damage- not particularly for the figures which as you say are out of date

Photo-journalists the world over chose the most dramatic and sensational images available - why would they need any outside help deciding what to publish from Hamas

All seems a bit minimising and IDK ?conspiratorial on your part

They deserve better than the restrictions imposed on them by Israel too.

@Christmascountdownpanic it's a war. Ofcourse the general focus is going to be on deaths casualties and damage. That's not only from journalists living there but on MSM too.

Correct but many then go on with over the top exclamations of the population is being literally wiped out (2.5 million are not wiped out) genocide, ethnic cleansing, there are no buildings, it's a wasteland etc. SOME, obviously not you are unable to distinguish the difference and assume everything is like that shown.

Sitting down and mediation using logical process and people is what is needed to move forward for everyone.

@Christmascountdownpanic yes but some will also dismissive or downplay what Is happening too. So it's only this percentage of people killed implying its not actually that bad.

From what I have seen @Efacsen is one of the most accurate with up to date figures and what is happening
But we are talking about death and destruction at a large scale that is happening non stop aswell as rockets being fired into Israel daily aswell as many displaced within Israel too. It's difficult to talk about this without emotions coming into it and this is a forum so it's expected to see people's feelings, emotions and perceptions on issues like this on both sides.

I don't know a single person from my family and friends who haven't been impacted by what is happening right now in some way.

I don't know why people say the UK would do the same if attacked. We don't have a couple of million people held under blockade in a strip of land here, Surely the situation is quite unusual there.

I don't think given our history with war that the UK is a great example to compare other countries with in that aspect either.

@Parkingt111 True, we are no angels. Maybe we should be asking ourselves what Iceland would do, or some other country that seems peaceful. Still, the situation of having millions of people fenced in on your own land mass is unusual, and I can't see how war strategies can be compared to the UK or many other places really.

The US forced displacement and slow motion genocide of the Native Americans is roughly comparable. The US forced Native Americans off their lands into designated “reservations” which were the worst bits of land, often far from their tribal homelands. The US then diverted water resources, blockaded the reservations controlling food, goods, medicine. Even infected blankets and cloth with smallpox to cause epidemics to rage through the trapped populace. The US military restricted movement, any leaving the res were considered hostile “on the warpath”. Punitive measures consisted of massacres of Native American villages by the U.S. military on raids. Native Americans were not US citizens and had no vote

S. Africa Apartheid has some parallels as well and is more modern.

@MercanDede Very tragic history to the US and Canada. I was told that the stories about the violent tribes scalping was actually something started by the settlers - not sure if that's true. It's more complicated in Israel I think, because Jewish people have always lived there, unlike European settlers to the US and Canada. If for some reason England decided to put Dorset or Cornwall under blockade and they attacked us, I suppose there would be a way to draw a comparison.

I don’t think it makes it any more complicated.

@MercanDede I don't know, I just think the situation is so unusual and complicated that it can't be compared with the UK.

Every historic and current situation like this has unique factors to it. Comparison is when you highlight the things that are similar while understanding no two situations can be identical. Some things like do people have a right to live on their land are simple. There is no recognition of being of a certain religion means you can just take by force and murder land that you claim your ancestors might have lived on thousands of years ago.

We live in a global village now, the international values are that people have a right to immigrate and go to historic homelands or to new countries and adopt a new homeland. We all know that humans have had waves upon waves of migration over the millenia. There is no take backsies.

This means that returning to a historic homeland doesn’t mean you can displace the peoples who are already legally there, and have been for generations, simply because they are a different religion from you. It would be like a descendent of the Norman invasion rocking up into Normandy and taking over a chateau in France, kicking out the French people living there who had never left.

Because the Palestinians, most of them are also not new to the region as an ethnicity, their religions are slightly newer than Judiaism because they adopted Christianity and Islam.

@stormy4319trevor so maybe I wasn't being paranoid thinking that there was something sinister afoot with the 'humanitarian compound' and the EU maritime aid corridor

Cyprus aid corridor will allow Israel to cut off Gaza: Israeli FM

Eli Cohen, in an interview with Israeli media, said he has reached an agreement with Cypriot and UK authorities to open the corridor after a brief trip to Cyprus today.
Israel will “establish a sea corridor between Cyprus and Gaza, provided that it would be under Israeli security supervision and control”, he said.

He also said this would be done in a way that would allow Israel to “completely close the crossings between Israel and Gaza, and in order to ensure complete separation from Gaza”, implying that Israel intends to close the recently opened Karem Abu Salem (Kerem Shalom) border crossing with Gaza.

I'm a bit confused @Efacsen What's the connection between the proposed compound and the sea corridor between Cyprus and Gaza?

@Efacsen why is it necessarily'sinister'?
If compromise can't be reached I assume Israel intends to seal off Gaza and extend the border? Tighten up security.
Either with Israel or international guards?
Can't allow another 7/10 if hamas refuse to go.
Why would they keep facilitating things through the border? Putting safety at risk?

@stormy4319trevor think I've maybe confused myself - I'll have another think about it all

Some parallels can also be drawn with what happened in Ireland during the time of Cromwell and the Plantations:
"After Charles I was executed on Jan. 29, 1649, Cromwell was dispatched to Ireland to bring the Royalist Army into submission. That adventure soon became a war to bring about the “ultimate solution” of the Irish Catholic problem. The land owned by the Irish was confiscated in all but the poor area west of the Shannon and the order “To hell or to Connaught” gave full warning that any who remained would be put to the sword. In the Church in Drogheda, wherein Irish fled for safety, men, women and children were slaughtered. None escaped".
The newly displaced Irish peasantry were banished to western and southern Ireland. While ordering the mass eviction of Irish Catholics from their land, Cromwell famously announced that he would send the Irish “to Hell or Connaught!” (Connaught is a province in Western Ireland, with very poor agricultural land and at that time very difficult to make living off)
To hell or to Connaught is still a well used phrase in Ireland today

Just shocking

Israel Gaza: 'I walked my kids past explosions and rotting corpses' www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67635735

I read that article and it’s really scary and depressing. Those poor people are literally treated like animals, they must be constantly terrified.

1649 and the expression is still used today.