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Conflict in the Middle East

Why Can't Gazans Leave?

960 replies

miniaturepixieonacid · 04/12/2023 13:25

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

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Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 20:54

US vetoes the resolution for immediate ceasefire in Gaza

The final vote is 13 members for, one abstention and one against.
The US, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, is the sole nation to vote against.
This means that the resolution has failed.

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 20:55

What a disgrace

Only the US voted against
The UK abstained which is no better
All other 13 members voted yes for a ceasefire

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 20:58

This is what the UK's ambassador to the UN had to say yet they still didn't vote for a ceasefire

The UK's ambassador to the UN Barbara Woodward has called the number of Palestinian deaths in Gaza "shocking" ahead of a vote on whether to support an immediate ceasefire.
She told the UN Security Council that mass displacement of the population "cannot continue".

stormy4319trevor · 08/12/2023 20:59

Utterly disgusting from the US and the UK. @Parkingt111

Livinginanotherworld · 08/12/2023 21:18

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 19:07

We have prison for children (Young Offenders Institutions).

Children that commit violent crimes in the UK above the age of criminal responsibility can serve custodial sentences. Foreign nationals that commit violent crimes in the UK above the age of criminal responsibility can serve custodial sentences.

This is the norm in most countries, including Israel.

The minors in Israeli prisons are not 3 year olds. They are adolescent convicts above the age of criminal responsibility who were found guilty of violent crimes up to and including r-pe and murder, who would be sent to prison in most countries they could commit those crimes in.

You are wrong, at lot of these children ( I’ll repeat children, not adolescent convicts) are between 8-14 who were throwing stones at tanks , held without any trial, no responsible adult allowed and subject to extreme beatings and torture daily.

Livinginanotherworld · 08/12/2023 21:24

FrozenWindscreen · 08/12/2023 20:07

Evidence schizophrenia was caused by abuse in Israeli prison?

I remember being surprised at how healthy he looked in recent video of him after reading about his supposed horrific treatment in prison.

People do forget one of the victims was a 13 year old child himself @cauliflowerwaterfall

My god this is horrific, that poor boy. How can you think that this is ok ? Seriously ?

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 21:26

stormy4319trevor · 08/12/2023 20:59

Utterly disgusting from the US and the UK. @Parkingt111

I agree

Livinginanotherworld · 08/12/2023 21:29

Why can’t the other countries override the US and UK votes if everyone else voted for a ceasefire ? I don’t understand how they get the deciding vote ? If this is the case then there is nothing the world can do 😢

TokyoSushi · 08/12/2023 21:49

Livinginanotherworld · 08/12/2023 21:29

Why can’t the other countries override the US and UK votes if everyone else voted for a ceasefire ? I don’t understand how they get the deciding vote ? If this is the case then there is nothing the world can do 😢

They're 'Senior members' of the security council (Us, the USA, France and other such countries) so therefore have a veto. If one of these countries says no, the answer is no.

stormy4319trevor · 08/12/2023 21:49

The 5 permanent members of UNSC have the right to veto. That's US, UK, Russia, China and France. I think it was set up that way after WW2, It does seem like it should be changed. It's unfair on the other countries.

Livinginanotherworld · 08/12/2023 21:53

Shocking that just 1 country can make a decision on that alone.

inloveandmarried · 08/12/2023 21:53

I asked this question recently. I wanted to know why there wasn't an airport, why people didn't leave.

I discovered and this isn't verified, that Gazans can leave but can't return to Gaza. So they choose not to leave as they wouldn't see their families again.

I'm not sure if this is right but it's making sense.

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 21:54

France has been openly critical aswell as expressing alarm at the death toll in Gaza and the humanatarian catastrophe so I did think they would vote for the ceasefire

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 21:56

inloveandmarried · 08/12/2023 21:53

I asked this question recently. I wanted to know why there wasn't an airport, why people didn't leave.

I discovered and this isn't verified, that Gazans can leave but can't return to Gaza. So they choose not to leave as they wouldn't see their families again.

I'm not sure if this is right but it's making sense.

They can leave, Israel told them to evacuate south right at the beginning when Israel was concentrating in the north but Hamas wouldn’t let them

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 22:04

@cauliflowerwaterfall going south in Gaza? How does that mean they can leave Gaza?

And have you even seen the state of the south right now? How did moving there even benefit them
In the north they would have been killed in their homes
In the south they are being killed in tents and on the streets

EasterIssland · 08/12/2023 22:05

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 21:56

They can leave, Israel told them to evacuate south right at the beginning when Israel was concentrating in the north but Hamas wouldn’t let them

Those leaving Gaza are allowed to return to their (destroyed) house?

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 22:06

And don't forget that the It was confirmed by BBC verify that the designated zones the IDF told them to move to in the south at the start of the war, were then bombed by them the next day
Which then resulted in many people too fearful to move thinking it was a trap

feralunderclass · 08/12/2023 22:10

paladium · 08/12/2023 20:04

According to Amnesty, he did not participate in the stabbings.

Ahmad Manasra was arrested in 2015 in relation to the stabbing and injury of two Israelis, aged 20 and 13, in occupied East Jerusalem. Although Israeli courts found that Ahmad did not participate in the stabbings, he is serving a nine-and-a-half-year sentence for attempted murder.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/09/israel-opt-after-nearly-2-years-in-solitary-confinement-ahmad-manasra-too-ill-to-attend-his-hearing/

Thank you for pointing out this fact. It's very important to remember that Israel dole out many 'convictions' that don't even tie the alleged perpetrator to the location. You can turn up in the military court and have no idea what crime you are going to get landed with. Anthony Hurndall, whose son was killed in Gaza in 2003 was just saying this a few days ago on the news. Israel are very well known for making stuff up, then lying to cover themselves up.

On the note of torture - again look up any human rights organization and you will see that countries that routinely use torture do so in a way to inflict injury whilst leaving minimal marks. I remember when I was there there was a hebrew name for beating the soles of the feet with metal pipes, as they don't bruise easily. Putting the body in certain positions for prolonged periods is also a form of torture that leaves no marks. You can dislocate limbs with no breakage of the skin. There is plenty of documentation of torture that can be physically seen too.

Toothyfruity · 08/12/2023 22:12

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 21:56

They can leave, Israel told them to evacuate south right at the beginning when Israel was concentrating in the north but Hamas wouldn’t let them

Another lie.

They were told to go to the south of Gaza to safety, but Israel is also bombing there so there was no safety. Just ethnic cleansing that turned into genocide.

Palestinians can't leave Gaza. People with dual passports were eventually allowed to leave after a month but Palestinians can't.

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 22:14

They did have an airport in Gaza but it was bombed in 2001 by Israel when there was fighting

tescocreditcard · 08/12/2023 22:15

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 22:14

They did have an airport in Gaza but it was bombed in 2001 by Israel when there was fighting

What and they've had 22 years to repair it but haven't?

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 22:16

Toothyfruity · 08/12/2023 22:12

Another lie.

They were told to go to the south of Gaza to safety, but Israel is also bombing there so there was no safety. Just ethnic cleansing that turned into genocide.

Palestinians can't leave Gaza. People with dual passports were eventually allowed to leave after a month but Palestinians can't.

I clearly said at the beginning when they were focused on the north. Israel made thousands of phone calls and dropped millions of leaflets telling them to evacuate south. Civilians were blocked by Hamas though. Is there anything at all you will hold Hamas responsible for?

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 22:17

I just saw Hamas executed another hostage today, an engineering student ☹️ RIP I will light tomorrow’s candle for him

Whatamidoinhere · 08/12/2023 22:25

feralunderclass · 08/12/2023 22:10

Thank you for pointing out this fact. It's very important to remember that Israel dole out many 'convictions' that don't even tie the alleged perpetrator to the location. You can turn up in the military court and have no idea what crime you are going to get landed with. Anthony Hurndall, whose son was killed in Gaza in 2003 was just saying this a few days ago on the news. Israel are very well known for making stuff up, then lying to cover themselves up.

On the note of torture - again look up any human rights organization and you will see that countries that routinely use torture do so in a way to inflict injury whilst leaving minimal marks. I remember when I was there there was a hebrew name for beating the soles of the feet with metal pipes, as they don't bruise easily. Putting the body in certain positions for prolonged periods is also a form of torture that leaves no marks. You can dislocate limbs with no breakage of the skin. There is plenty of documentation of torture that can be physically seen too.

Thank you.

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 22:27

Another reasons the Gazans didn't initially want to leave is because many still remember the Nakba and feared leaving their homes would mean they would never be able to come back.
Even if it was just to move to the south

Although even if they do come back now most of the homes have been destroyed

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