Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

@Efacsen I said ' step up' not necessarily take them. They chose to financially back and keep the elite of Hamas so looking after some injured and orphaned is the least they can do.

So exactly how would you want to see Qatar 'step up' given that this discussion is about the fate of 2.3 million Gazan civilians?

You sneer at whatever Qatar do or provide which has been exceptional

I know that it seems an unlikely situation and there are too many questions as where they will go and I can fully understand the mistrust that they will be allowed back even if assurances were given
But I think at the minimum, for those who have family elsewhere and if their families are willing to atleast take in their children whilst the war is happening then that would save some lives

Too many children are dying
If I was in Gaza and I had a sibling in the UK who would be happy to look after my children for me during the duration of the war then I would take that up in a heartbeat

My thought process has always been saving some is better than none

Actually that's not true.
33.4% are American or European descent.

A lot of Israelis have some European ancestry. Very few have mostly European ancestry.

What with the moving around a lot :/

They also had issues before 1948 as am I happy to rattle off if you like?

But again that's just my own thoughts
Maybe I am wrong, and maybe it's something that there is no feasible way to carry out. I do wish the option was atleast available for those who wanted it though.

Yes Qatar have done alot
In aid and in playing a part in negotiations.
From all the Arab countries they have probably done the most

@Efacsen where do the hierarchy of Hamas live? Where is millions of aid filtered through? And by whom?

Exceptional.....

All the countries that surround that area (even the one burnt by Hamas before) could step up quite frankly.

I think it could be feasible to take at least children. Morally this should be done by those funding and providing the bombs. I would have thought. So Europe, Israel and the US? Probably those countries have issues, not least that it sets a precedent for taking more if the push to expand Israel's borders continues. But, I still don't know if a ceasefire could happen next week and a massive push to rebuild Gaza and secure 2 states. It's difficult to foresee, even if it looks hopeless right now.

@stomachameleon but what do you mean by step up
So in terms of aid I can see that all have been helping but again it's limited how much and what can come in

Giving asylum? The main reason they are refusing is because they know that they won't be allowed to return
If assurances was given that they could and a solid assurance that would come with consequences if this was later taken away and then despite all that they still didn't allow Gazans in temporarily then that would be a different issue.

Step up and be more involved in a two state solution and the future of Palestine? Then yes that I agree with
But that can't happen right now whilst the war is happening

There are many civilians of the Arab countries who also think the government's should step up. But the way they want them to step up would include military assistance aswell as financial repercussions (oil) and that wouldn't be good for Israel at all

I think this is the sort of escalation that the US is warning about and that's the sort of stepping up that we don't want

Where the political wing of Hamas live/Hamas finances is pretty irrelevant to a discussion about a potential home for millions of refugees

And yes it's a fact that Qatars generosity has been exceptional even given their immense wealth

But like I say all you do is sneer and don't provide any suggestions practical or otherwise as to how Qatar might 'step up' in this crisis

I think she is specifically talking about the settlements- I know loads of American’s move there but I’ve no idea if that figure is true.

Jordan has made it clear that they condemn the killing of civilians and that there has not been enough precautions taken to avoid this aswell as allowing in sufficient aid

They have also said that creating conditions that will push out or render civilians in the Occupied west bank to no longer be able to live there safely, will mean they will cease the peace treaty they have with Israel

We should have kicked the Germans out to scrubland on the edge of the earth for their crimes against humanity after quite rightly annihilating their ruling class. In their place holocaust survivors could have the pick of German real estate backed up by allied protection for a hundred years to ensure the reversal was safe and sustainable.They were the real animals collectively and individually but we didn't and here we are. Some poor desert dwellers driven virtually insane by an irreconcilable injustice go rampaging against all moral norms.

It was the Nazis not the German population. Same as it’s the Israeli government not the Israel population and Hamas and not the Palestinians.,

@Parkingt111 of course that's what I mean. For any way forward I think cooperation from the surrounds countries is paramount. It will send a strong signal. I accept at the moment any discussion of afterwards seems a long way off.

@Efacsen I don't care if it's the crocheting and knitting wing of Hamas. They allow them to live their in luxury whilst they pontificate about Israel not letting aid through etc.

But I think it's the same with any country with real clout. They may shake their heads and say one thing but collectively they know Hamas need to go.

How do you know I am sneering? Extreme wealth is never irrelevant when it could alleviate what is happening. You are making excuses.

The UN plan gave 56% of the land to the Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

Some of your facts are quite alternative.

@Itisyourturntowashthebath Alternative is a good way to put it. :)

Fair point but in 1945 I would probably have found it difficult to distinguish between the 2. That said my late father who fought in ww2 and ended his service with the Royal Signals going up from Italy to Germany was utterly shocked at the destruction he observed as they move through German cities to Berlin. He remembered vividly a night when all Germans were forced to go to screenings of newsreels from the death camps so they could be forcibly reminded of what their people had allowed to happen and far too many had been complicit with.

And it's worse Netanhayu is on record saying Muslims are worse than Nazis recalling that at one point Hitler wanted to solve the Jewish question by mass deportations to Palestine but the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem said no so he pivoted to the Holocaust. If you unpack that statement it's a deeply evil revisionism of history paving the way for the dehumanisation of Palestinian people. Douglas Murray likes to riff of similar as well preparing the ground.

Not true. Most Israelis cannot be considered settlers at all, and those that are is disputed. The majority of Israeli Jews are expelled Mizrahim. Many of the Jewish children and babies murdered on October 7th and smeared in the West as deserving it for being “settlers” were living on land only ever occupied by Jews, displaced nobody, and had never set foot in Europe - they were born in Israel, their parents were born in Israel, their grandparents were born in Israel…

My father was Israeli. He was born in Israel. His parents were Persian Jews. When he came to the UK in the late 80s to study he was the first member of his family to ever travel to Europe.

I have Israeli cousins, second cousins, their children, aunts, great aunts… all born in Israel. Some have been to Europe on holiday but that’s about it. When they speak English or French or whatever they are speaking a second language.

With respect the time for Europeans pondering on where every Jew should be deported to is over. It wasn’t like… only Germans in uniform were murderously antisemitic. The uniforms don’t turn you into an antisemite. Swastikas aren’t black magic where you’re fine and then you wear one and suddenly you want to murder Jews. German society at that time was racist. Germans knew about the final solution while it was happening. These were the people that turned a blind eye and sold us out (and also sold out their own neighbours, sons and daughters for other reasons like being disabled or gay, knowing what would happen to them) they were not the bewildered innocent Judeophiles they get painted as now. There was a reason that in the late 40s Germany (both Germanies, remember) was not on the list of dream destinations to ship the world’s unwanted Jewish refugees to. Jews were still in refugee camps for years after the war. Some survived Auschwitz or Belsen and then died in UN refugee camps. But they would have taken the camps over Germany. The vast majority of Jews killed in the Holocaust by the way were not German Jews and didn’t speak German - they were taken from occupied countries such as France, Hungary and Poland. If you destroy Israel you have 9 million refugees to deal with, including half the Jewish population of planet Earth.

Well considering the US is funding Israel and is fully complicit with the war crimes committed, maybe they should offer a big chunk of their country (that they themselves occupied) and made Israel the 51st state of America. Their values of warmongering are more aligned.

How many Americans speak Hebrew? You want to round up 9 million people including half of the world’s Jews and send them to a country they’ve never been before, they have no connection to, very few synagogues, very little Jewish food, who speak a different language, who commit more hate crimes against that group per person than any other minority, and are all armed with guns? Thanks but no thanks.

I don’t think Israel people should leave and live in USA. Same way I don’t think Palestinians should be kicked of their houses and pushed into other countries as some posters are suggesting.

Who has suggested that?