Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

That's the single most shocking thing I've ever seen and I sort of wished I hadn't. That said if you support war then you must support this "for the greater good" or whatever. No wonder so many ex-service people have major PTSD disorders but at least that ought to be soldier killing soldiers. This, in the same way as the atrocities on October 7th is wholesale slaughter with huge high explosive ordnance used in the most densely populated place on earth.

If you pull back and see the bigger picture what with climate change, and the growing clouds of global war humanity will be seen as the last terrible cancerous growth of random evolution that ultimately destroyed itself. And God can go back to the drawing boatd.

A few weeks ago on the news I saw a man hold up his dead baby. It had no head, one leg was missing and both hands were gone too. The remaining body was charred. I believe it is the effect of certain types of bombing.

It just makes me imagine WB 2. Awful as life might be in Gaza, I suppose they didn't have to deal with settler attacks and night raids on their homes to remove their children. If it becomes an occupation they will. I hope the US and others will be firm in rejecting this. It's no solution at all.

The Palestinians are stuck between a rock and a hard place wherever they are. The world is coming to terms with the reality that Israel has been making strategic, concerted efforts to prevent them from self determining. They've talked about a two state solution, but refused every option. The reality is that that is geographically impossible, and it was on purpose. The only way forward now is a one state, equality for all solution.

The exact same thing was said about Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution. Good old Daily Mail.Same old shit.

The point shouldn't be why isn't X country taking them in? We should be asking why the hell aren't Israel allowing them to live in peace in their own country.

As an Israeli general queried, paraphrasing, if Hamas were launching hundreds of missiles a day at London, would everyone say to do nothing? Israel has shown restraint for a very long time against plenty of provocation, but, 7 October was a horror too evil to bear and required a response by any scale of decency which is why Hamas escalated things, they wanted this and they are responsible for forcing the Palestinian people to suffer for them as Hamas planned. This is the very definition of evil - committing horrible acts and then condemning those who are forced to respond to stop the evil. It is horrible for the Israelis and it is horrible for the Palestinians but lay the blame squarely on those who demand it - Hamas who have said they will be doing it again as soon as possible. You cannot argue with evil, it must be rooted out and the process is horrible and costly - look at the war with ISIS who said the same as Hamas, this is what we want and we will be doing it again and again until we have completed the planned genocide - Hamas against Israel and ISIS against all who weren't their kind of Muslim. I really despair that people can't see the reality.

I despair at people who can't see reality too. Israel kills, detains, tortures, harasses, humiliates and steals from Palestinians all of the time, that's not the definition of evil though is it? Imagine thinking that that isn't provocation. Imagine thinking so little of Palestinians that you completely gloss over their pain and suffering at the hands of Israelis for decades, just pretend that none of it has ever happened. Do you understand that Palestinians are people too? That they hurt when their children are murdered by Israel? That they suffer when their homes and land are stolen from them? That they weep just like you would when their children are stolen from their beds and night, taken away to be tortured and detained for as long as Israel likes?

@SOBplus Wow.
NOBODY condones what happened on the 7th of October. But according to you it makes it okay to murder 7000 children? The 16000 civilians? The war crimes? The bombing of hospitals, churches, mosques, UN schools? The aid trucks waiting in Egypt but prevented to enter by Israel (because there're agreements post the israel-Egypt war)? The use white Phosphorus in densely populated areas? What about the land grab?

The truth is blinding and anyone with a conscience can't deny it. Israel cannot save its image now even if it tried.

You're right and this is a great post.

People are either deluded or being disingenuous if they believe the UK wouldn't hunt down the culprits after such a vicious attack on innocent civilians. Especially when many are STILL held hostage (Being raped, starved and tortured - if they're lucky, killed and put out of their misery).

It's that simple.

"hunting down the culprits" is not the same as collective punishment, genocide and ethnic cleansing. War crimes are being committed on a daily basis.

It wouldn't be if the filthy cowards that are Hamas didn't hide behind humanitarian targets like schools, hospitals, mosques.

It's fuckung tragic and depressing.

not strictly true, egypt won't take refugees because once palestinians leave they will lose their homeland and won't be allowed back.

@BeggyMitchell If their sole intent was to wipe out Hamas, why are they not allowing aid in, starving and dehydrating everyone. Cruel and unnecessary.

IDF are not taking precautions to protect civilians.

They are not allowing in anywhere near enough aid. They are starving and dehydrating them. This is a war crime.

They are not allowing safe zones. They are bombing them. This is a war crime.

These are war crimes and completely unnecessary with regards to the stated objective of "taking out Hamas".

It is therefore a clear cut genocide.

Former ICC chief prosecutor: Israel’s siege of Gaza is a 'genocide'

I always thought 2 state on 67 borders would be a good start, but I do hear people saying it's impossible. Ultimately the people living there have to work it out, I suppose.

In an ideal world there would be two states, but Israel have refused to cooperate with all proposed resolutions. Very recently Ben Gvir said the settlements will only get larger until the whole of West Bank is Jewish. Daniella Weiss, former mayor of a settlement said she used to have talks with Ariel Sharon to decide where the next settlement was going to be placed. By 'pockmarking' the WB with settlements Palestinians are geographically enclaved, and physically there is no chance of a Palestinian state. This was always the plan, they want to drive the Palestinians out, take the West Bank "by hook or by crook".

@feralunderclass It seems unlikely, but if the Israeli military occupation withdrew and full control handed to Palestinians, the settlers could stay, but living in a Palestinian state. I know that Likud and Netanyahu don't want 2 states, but it seems to me the 2 state would just have to be imposed via a series of sticks and carrots for both parties. Of course, whether there's any international motivation to do that is dubious.

I have just seen that Israel have approved further 1700 settlements In the occupied territories which will also be in East Jerusalem today

I have to agree now with what @feralunderclass has been saying after I read this today
How can there be a two state solution after this? It's also clear that Netanyahu and the government don't want it

It was very sad to read

The location it has been approved also shows that they don't intend for a two state solution

The Ir Amim organisation, which tracks the construction of Jewish neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, said an access road to the site would have to be built over Palestinian land.
The AFP news agency quoted Hagit Ofran from Peace Now as saying: "If it weren't for the war [between Israel and Hamas], there would be a lot of noise.
"It's a highly problematic project for the continuity of a Palestinian state."
Israel considers the entire city of Jerusalem its capital, though this is not recognised by almost all the international community. Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as their future capital of a hoped-for independent state.

@Parkingt111 They are really using the war to ramp up a takeover. Where are these displaced Palestinians going to go, I wonder.

Think USA criticised this settlements few days ago

Criticism isn't enough. US needs to impose financial sanctions on Israel. The two state solution has been empty words on Israel's part.

I know. But they won’t specially if there is elections next year.

Just saw on the news that Christmas has been cancelled this year in Palestine. Bethlehem is usually very busy now with pilgrims from all around the world, but hotels now have shut. Father Ishaq from the Lutheran Church said "this year Jesus will be reborn not in a stable, but in the rubble, in solidarity with the people of Gaza". 😢

@feralunderclass Can we cancel it here too? It seems obscene to be jolly when I am watching the destruction of an entire culture and people. I'll buy a few things from Palestinian companies, but that's it.