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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Do lots of people support Hamas?

691 replies

elprup · 03/12/2023 20:33

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

OP posts:
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Trulywonderful · 09/12/2023 18:41

This reply has been deleted

We decided to take this down as it is not in the spirit of the site.

Bonkersworknonsense · 09/12/2023 19:10

@HeidiInTheBigCity “Pictures of stripped almost naked, kneeling abducted civilians. Israeli accounts gloating about "we caught Hamas". No, you fucking did not, you fucking war criminals! You kidnapped civilians! “

Em? Why do you believe them to be civilians? They are in a combat area and Hamas terrorists do not wear uniforms. Is it that the IDF has had them take off layers so they can see if they have suicide vests or weapons?

if that bothers you more than the planned rapes and mutilations of Israeli women then your moral compass is broken.

Hamas knew they would provoke a military response. Any country would have responded the same.

The question is: if you know you’re risking your civilians by committing mass murder and rape, why do it? Answer: because they are raping, murdering fanatics.

As to the marches, many people interviewed will say they believe that mass murder and rapes are “resistance”. There’s no way I’d stand anywhere near those lunatics.

XRAYTHIS · 09/12/2023 19:17

Parkingt111 · 09/12/2023 09:18

@ChickHenLittle and it doesn't help that Putin and some others must be extremely happy knowing that anything the US condemns them with now won't hold as much weight

To be fair Putin ignored the UN anyway.

Kindatired · 09/12/2023 19:44

Limeandsodaontherocks · 07/12/2023 00:23

Yes . Since October 7th and the terrible images of Shani Louk and the other victims, I’ve found it very hard to see the conflict in the way I used to see it . Like you, I was sympathetic to Palestinians who have been oppressed for years. I’m still sympathetic to their suffering but After hearing of the full horror of October 7th I don’t have certainty about what would be a moral and just solution. It just all feels apocalyptic and terrifying. The only thing I know is that innocent people are suffering on both sides.

Show quote history

I think you need to close your mind to Hamas and not give them real estate in your head.

Terrorist groups are like rats- exterminate as much as you will, as long as the underlying injustice prevails, there are an endless number of splinter groups and competitors to take over the ecological niche they occupy.

Terrorist groups aim to disrupt the status quo and generate a disproportionate backlash to their actions because the backlash brings them more support.

Ending conflict is a really dirty business. Third party intermediaries will have to be involved and some of these parties are themselves pretty nasty. But dialogue is needed, especially to try and get any surviving hostages out. It’s highly unlikely that Hamas will be involved in any post conflict administration of the region though, even if some dialogue with them is necessary on the way.

Focusing on Hamas takes the spotlight off the children of Gaza. They are being bombed and staved as we speak. Children will likely have died between me writing this and it being read.The international community has called for a a ceasefire, not because they support Hamas, but to save innocent civil lives.

When things are complex you need to keep your eye on the simple things as any brain surgeon would tell you. Any 8 year old child could tell you that it’s wrong to kill children.For most religions “Thou shalt not kill” is not a suggestion and it doesn’t just apply to a Hamas.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 09/12/2023 21:02

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Trulywonderful · 09/12/2023 21:37

This one says he supports Hamas. Suppose at least he is more honest than most 🙄

NYU Adjunct Professor Dr. Tomasz Skiba share an Instagram story that states “No, I don’t condemn Hamas.”

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1733264790997352835

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1733264790997352835

Limeandsodaontherocks · 09/12/2023 21:40

Kindatired · 09/12/2023 19:44

I think you need to close your mind to Hamas and not give them real estate in your head.

Terrorist groups are like rats- exterminate as much as you will, as long as the underlying injustice prevails, there are an endless number of splinter groups and competitors to take over the ecological niche they occupy.

Terrorist groups aim to disrupt the status quo and generate a disproportionate backlash to their actions because the backlash brings them more support.

Ending conflict is a really dirty business. Third party intermediaries will have to be involved and some of these parties are themselves pretty nasty. But dialogue is needed, especially to try and get any surviving hostages out. It’s highly unlikely that Hamas will be involved in any post conflict administration of the region though, even if some dialogue with them is necessary on the way.

Focusing on Hamas takes the spotlight off the children of Gaza. They are being bombed and staved as we speak. Children will likely have died between me writing this and it being read.The international community has called for a a ceasefire, not because they support Hamas, but to save innocent civil lives.

When things are complex you need to keep your eye on the simple things as any brain surgeon would tell you. Any 8 year old child could tell you that it’s wrong to kill children.For most religions “Thou shalt not kill” is not a suggestion and it doesn’t just apply to a Hamas.

Show quote history

I agree we need to stop the killing of Palestinian children. It’s unbearable to think about and I don’t know how the surviving children will ever recover from their trauma.
I don’t really like the phrase ..”I think you need to close your mind to Hamas and not give them real estate in your head.” It sounds patronising ( Im sure it wasn’t meant that way) And It’s not about me . It’s about Israelis who are afraid of another October 7th .
But yes - the focus now needs to be on the Palestinian children.

Tryingmybestadhd · 09/12/2023 21:47

Bonkersworknonsense · 09/12/2023 19:10

@HeidiInTheBigCity “Pictures of stripped almost naked, kneeling abducted civilians. Israeli accounts gloating about "we caught Hamas". No, you fucking did not, you fucking war criminals! You kidnapped civilians! “

Em? Why do you believe them to be civilians? They are in a combat area and Hamas terrorists do not wear uniforms. Is it that the IDF has had them take off layers so they can see if they have suicide vests or weapons?

if that bothers you more than the planned rapes and mutilations of Israeli women then your moral compass is broken.

Hamas knew they would provoke a military response. Any country would have responded the same.

The question is: if you know you’re risking your civilians by committing mass murder and rape, why do it? Answer: because they are raping, murdering fanatics.

As to the marches, many people interviewed will say they believe that mass murder and rapes are “resistance”. There’s no way I’d stand anywhere near those lunatics.

100% the way I think

Bonkersworknonsense · 09/12/2023 22:35

@HeidiInTheBigCity well, given that they hide weapons and tunnels under schools, don’t think being in a school equals innocence. To suggest it does seems disingenuous.

So you don’t think they’d release them, yet admit they are releasing some of them? How does that work?

They do not dress like soldiers, as you well know. They wear tshirts, jeans, etc. Some of them are middle aged, and many of the men in the photos of captured Hamas are young.

Im sorry your ex can’t spell the word politics. But random bit of info, but proves nothing.

Your whole reply is disingenuous, but you know that.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 09/12/2023 22:49

Bonkersworknonsense · 09/12/2023 22:35

@HeidiInTheBigCity well, given that they hide weapons and tunnels under schools, don’t think being in a school equals innocence. To suggest it does seems disingenuous.

So you don’t think they’d release them, yet admit they are releasing some of them? How does that work?

They do not dress like soldiers, as you well know. They wear tshirts, jeans, etc. Some of them are middle aged, and many of the men in the photos of captured Hamas are young.

Im sorry your ex can’t spell the word politics. But random bit of info, but proves nothing.

Your whole reply is disingenuous, but you know that.

Go ahead and keep on telling yourself all this if it helps you sleep at night!

You are engaged in apologetics for crimes against humanity! You are excusing the war crimes that the extreme right-wing government commits against a people under occupation!

But go ahead and tell yourself your little fairy tales! That people are guilty, that child deaths are unfortunate but unavoidable, that the casually cruel IDF are a "most moral army", that Netanyahu and his cronies "just want to live in peace and safety". That journalists are terrorists. That children deserve the death penalty for throwing stones at literal battle tanks! That Israel has not been occupying Gaza for over a decade. That you are the children of light, fighting against the children of darkness. That you are resisting Amalek.

Keep telling yourself all that, if it helps you sleep at night! But you are a war crimes apologist nonetheless!

Trulywonderful · 09/12/2023 22:50

Piers Cobyn says "So called Hamas terrorists" plus the whole thing on 7th October was a set up.

I think we can safely say he supports Hamas and many many many conspiracy theories from what we heard from him during covid

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1733582486536421621

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1733582486536421621

Tryingmybestadhd · 09/12/2023 23:03

Foremost I want to say I hate to see any children die or hurt , doesn’t matter where they are from .
The part where I struggle with fully supporting Palestine is their idea that being a martyr is good . They even have a martyrdom payment where parents receive money if their child died in conflict or during a terrorist act . They also get paid if IDF arrest a family member and very high payments if it’s a terrorist act . To me it seems like inciting terrorism and as a parent who absolutely love my children above anything else I cannot and will never agree or understand the mindset of being proud of a child that is a martyr .I would never put my child in a position where they could be arrested or hurt purposefully. Having been to Palestine ( albeit quite a few years ago when it was easier to cross ) you constantly see children at cross points often very young .
You dont see any of this on the Israeli or Jordan side ,nobody lingers at cross points or throws stones at military , children are absolutely adored and cared for .
So yes I admit , I find very hard to believe Hamas is completely separate from general civilians , I think a large part of civilians are Hamas or connected to Hamas someway .
I would love all children in Palestine to be safe from hurt , but I also believe with Hamas in power children in Gaza will never have a chance of being happy , right now to me I see children as pawns to every adult around them . They need education , they need people around them who don’t promote Islam radicalism , who 100% value life above anything else . They will not get that with Hamas in power . If anyone comes up with a real solution that includes a ceasefire where this kids have a real chance then I’m all ears but I think simply stopping with Hamas in power will just lead to another October 7 th that will lead to another war again and again and again .

Kindatired · 09/12/2023 23:05

Limeandsodaontherocks · 09/12/2023 21:40

I agree we need to stop the killing of Palestinian children. It’s unbearable to think about and I don’t know how the surviving children will ever recover from their trauma.
I don’t really like the phrase ..”I think you need to close your mind to Hamas and not give them real estate in your head.” It sounds patronising ( Im sure it wasn’t meant that way) And It’s not about me . It’s about Israelis who are afraid of another October 7th .
But yes - the focus now needs to be on the Palestinian children.

Show quote history

Sorry. I didn’t mean it to sound patronising.
For context, I was in the Congo and Rwanda in 1994 in the immediate aftermath of the genocide that was followed by a cholera outbreak that killed 12,000 that was in turn followed by a dysentery outbreak that led to more deaths.
I worked alongside some lovely Israelis who admitted to feeling that they had to confront 7 ethical dilemmas before breakfast about digging sanitation pits knowing the perpetrators would benefit. However, eventually the pits were dug, water and basic food provided and ultimately a peace process was put in place. Rwanda is now at peace, and I do believe that the UNHCR approach of meeting basic humanitarian needs of was ethically the right thing to do. The children had nothing to do with the genocide and were entitled to their lives, even if some perpetrators did dump in the same pits and ate some of the food.

Dealing with Hamas and letting the children of Gaza live are not mutually compatible so one or other has to give. It’s deeply upsetting that Hamas can’t be brought to justice immediately but you can’t really have both because the kids are actually starting to starve and they won’t be able to handle diarrhoea as well.

OuiOuiKitty · 09/12/2023 23:21

If anyone comes up with a real solution that includes a ceasefire where this kids have a real chance then I’m all ears but I think simply stopping with Hamas in power will just lead to another October 7 th that will lead to another war again and again and again .

A ceasefire in conjuction with the end of the illegal occupation and illegal settlements and the illegal blockade. This is the only way Palestinian children can live a life with any real chance of stability and prosperity.

Your post is pretty awful though and full of sweeping generalisations.

Toothyfruity · 09/12/2023 23:22

Tryingmybestadhd · 09/12/2023 23:03

Foremost I want to say I hate to see any children die or hurt , doesn’t matter where they are from .
The part where I struggle with fully supporting Palestine is their idea that being a martyr is good . They even have a martyrdom payment where parents receive money if their child died in conflict or during a terrorist act . They also get paid if IDF arrest a family member and very high payments if it’s a terrorist act . To me it seems like inciting terrorism and as a parent who absolutely love my children above anything else I cannot and will never agree or understand the mindset of being proud of a child that is a martyr .I would never put my child in a position where they could be arrested or hurt purposefully. Having been to Palestine ( albeit quite a few years ago when it was easier to cross ) you constantly see children at cross points often very young .
You dont see any of this on the Israeli or Jordan side ,nobody lingers at cross points or throws stones at military , children are absolutely adored and cared for .
So yes I admit , I find very hard to believe Hamas is completely separate from general civilians , I think a large part of civilians are Hamas or connected to Hamas someway .
I would love all children in Palestine to be safe from hurt , but I also believe with Hamas in power children in Gaza will never have a chance of being happy , right now to me I see children as pawns to every adult around them . They need education , they need people around them who don’t promote Islam radicalism , who 100% value life above anything else . They will not get that with Hamas in power . If anyone comes up with a real solution that includes a ceasefire where this kids have a real chance then I’m all ears but I think simply stopping with Hamas in power will just lead to another October 7 th that will lead to another war again and again and again .

I think those payments are because men typically earn money and if they're imprisoned or killed they can't earn and the family will fall into poverty. Republicans in Northern Ireland had a similar fund. I've never heard anyone refer to such a fund as "inciting terrorism".

Also it's quite insulting for you to suggest that Palestinians don't love their children as much as other people do. They've lost thousands of children in the last few months. They feel the same pain anyone else does when their child is harmed or killed.

It's very hard to understand how life for those who live in Gaza. We can't possibly imagine.

Limeandsodaontherocks · 09/12/2023 23:34

Kindatired · 09/12/2023 23:05

Sorry. I didn’t mean it to sound patronising.
For context, I was in the Congo and Rwanda in 1994 in the immediate aftermath of the genocide that was followed by a cholera outbreak that killed 12,000 that was in turn followed by a dysentery outbreak that led to more deaths.
I worked alongside some lovely Israelis who admitted to feeling that they had to confront 7 ethical dilemmas before breakfast about digging sanitation pits knowing the perpetrators would benefit. However, eventually the pits were dug, water and basic food provided and ultimately a peace process was put in place. Rwanda is now at peace, and I do believe that the UNHCR approach of meeting basic humanitarian needs of was ethically the right thing to do. The children had nothing to do with the genocide and were entitled to their lives, even if some perpetrators did dump in the same pits and ate some of the food.

Dealing with Hamas and letting the children of Gaza live are not mutually compatible so one or other has to give. It’s deeply upsetting that Hamas can’t be brought to justice immediately but you can’t really have both because the kids are actually starting to starve and they won’t be able to handle diarrhoea as well.

Show quote history

💯 agree . Thank you for the really helpful context.

twilightmoon3 · 09/12/2023 23:43

In 1947 most of the Zionists here when asked do you approve of hanging the British army troops in the olive Grove (Irgun) would have kept silent or said its difficult. Same for the bombing without warning of the King David's Hotel 93 dead , Sunak stayed there when he visited recently. Without these atrocities against the British there would have probably been a kinder Israel,but the terrorists won.

Livinginanotherworld · 09/12/2023 23:44

Toothyfruity · 09/12/2023 23:22

I think those payments are because men typically earn money and if they're imprisoned or killed they can't earn and the family will fall into poverty. Republicans in Northern Ireland had a similar fund. I've never heard anyone refer to such a fund as "inciting terrorism".

Also it's quite insulting for you to suggest that Palestinians don't love their children as much as other people do. They've lost thousands of children in the last few months. They feel the same pain anyone else does when their child is harmed or killed.

It's very hard to understand how life for those who live in Gaza. We can't possibly imagine.

Show quote history

The payments are as @Toothyfruity says, to help his family if he can’t earn. Because Gaza is not allowed a proper army that’s all they can do to help.

Don’t the IDF get paid ? I’m sure they are earning a very good salary, what’s so different ?

Katy231 · 09/12/2023 23:47

Really interesting how the focus is on Hamas and not the IDF terrorist group who are throwing white phosphorus as we speak.

Does anyone condemn those actions? They are breaking international law, do you condemn these actions?

Trulywonderful · 10/12/2023 00:22

Call me crazy but I think the focus is on Hamas because of the thread title at a guess

Do lots of people support Hamas

JUST like most people talk about the IDF when the thread is about them etc

Bonkersworknonsense · 10/12/2023 00:48

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HeidiInTheBigCity · 10/12/2023 01:04

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You are right, I apologise for my mistake!

The literal Nazi Eichmann got a trial!

Palestinian children who throw stones at tanks are just shot on the spot, no due process or anything like that!

That is much better, of course! Much more moral!

Toothyfruity · 10/12/2023 07:39

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Exactly! Israel would never kill innocent children.

Oh wait...