"Fact or Fiction: Israel needs fake nurses to justify killing Gaza babies" (Opinion Piece)

[Ohlalalalala]

I posted this article earlier on a thread about misinformation, but thought it important enough to warrant having its own thread as it can help people not familiar with media studies and the intricacies of information warfare to understand better the current events.

It's a very interesting, long and detailed analysis by the academic Dr Marc Owen Jones, about what's happening right now in Gaza.

I find that the author explains excellently well how Israel is trying to keep control of the false narrative regarding Gaza and Palestine in general. I urge anyone interested to read the whole piece as I copied parts only of the analysis.

May I kindly ask anyone not to derail the thread and to keep the discussion respectful. Please report any offensive posts to @MNHQ.

Fact or Fiction: Israel needs fake nurses to justify killing Gaza babies

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/11/17/fact-or-fiction-israel-needs-fake-nurses-to-justify-killing-gaza-babies

Here are some excerpts (highlights mine):

Israel knows it risks losing global support over its slaughter of children. So it’s turning to social media disinformation that’s sloppy but often effective.

In Gaza, a child is killed every 10 minutes. Since October 7, Israel has killed more than 4,000 children. Now, premature babies at Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital are dying because the institution is out of power after over a month of Israel’s siege, and so is unable to operate incubators.

Israel knows it risks losing international support for its ongoing slaughter of children.

As a result, Israel’s propaganda and disinformation machine is finding new ways to justify the killing of children and the bombing of medical facilities.

Usually, Israel’s first response to accusations of atrocities is denial. When that fails, the second strategy is to blame Hamas or other Palestinian armed groups for Palestinian deaths.

It hasn’t given up on those strategies, but is also trying to directly link Palestinian children to Hamas, and thereby seek to portray them – and the places where they are sheltering – as legitimate targets.

x.com/jordanuhl/status/1725610134221775356?s=46&t=H7RsBMUqqEi6HTuLgy64hg

Watch until the end to see the difference between both sides.

@Ratsoffasinkingsauage

I would suggest treading carefully lest you cost someone else their life on a false premise.

What is that supposed to mean?
This is exactly what Israel are doing and the innocent Palestinians are the ones paying for it in thousands.

Where did I say that? Are you ok? Or are you a troll?

I said there is enough genuine death and distraction IRL and all the allegations of fakery on both sides are distasteful. And there are as many allegations going around about Palestinians faking stuff as there are about Israelis. Conspiracy theories are shit and conspiracy theorists are the lowest of the low.

Two points I am still having problems with 1) why was the area invaded by Hamas not being guarded/monitored on 7/10. Israel's intelligence is fine tuned and yet such an attack took them by surprise. 2) whilst I accept attendees were killed/injured at the music festival has anyone seen the very film like photo of clean bodies lying neatly in a field and what do you think as to its veracity.

👏🏼

👏🏻👏🏻 also
Just to add - the shrill shouting of "antisemitism" as a defence against valid criticism of the Israeli Government & IDF just isn't cutting it anymore.

The Israeli administration have shown themselves & it's there for us all to see

So just stop with the "antisemitism"

Antisemitism has a definition (rightly) and thankfully it doesn't include criticism of Israel.
There is antisemitism so those who would dilute it with applying that statement to criticism of Israel so themselves and Jewish people no favours.

Are people seriously mad at random people on SM for clarifying these fake videos and not the Israeli government for posting them?

If a hospital staff calendar does not have any written names on it should Arabic speakers stay quiet ? If an MRI tech says it’s impossible to store weapons behind an MRI machine should we call him a liar because well the IDF says otherwise? The fake nurse with the terrible acting ? The Swedish tunnels and not Gazas?

I know this is all aimed at the American Audiences seeing how only CNN and Fox are on ground with the IDF but honestly I’d be insulted if this the sort of garbage I get every evening.

Hamas killed 1200 and is holding c200 hostages - no one thinks this is right. However Israel has in the last month alone has killed thousands of Palestinians and has held 2.2m hostage in Gaza for years. I know which I think is worse.

I reiterate this post

I'm very put off by anyone who passionately claims to know the truth at this point and indeed, anyone who takes a polarised position here. The world isn't as clear cut as goodies and baddies, that's over simplification.

Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles and aunts in Gaza and those with family in Gaza have taken to SM to document what is happening to them and their loved ones.

They are also showing what is happening on the West Bank.

This is in the absence of independent journalists who Israeli government did not allow into the Gaza until recently and only in company of the IDF. They journalists weren’t allowed to speak to people in the hospital! Why? Jeremy Bowen was allowed into Gaza and spoke of walking into a wasteland.

You can call this propaganda or you can view as Palestinians desperately asking the world to help them. I can believe some of the images are AI generated, but not all of them. This is not a case of supporting a “team”. It’s about now trying to stop the fighting and we wouldn’t be here without all the photos and reporting by citizen journalists on the ground.

The Hamas health ministry body count have been shown to be true and accepted in retrospect even by Israel. Their figures will be an underestimation as there are bodies still in the ruins.

The link shows that a previous Israeli ambassador to UK cannot even accept Israel has killed a child! The interviewer did not bother pulling him up on this, as viewers can clearly form their own views on this denial.

The link also points out disinformation that is up on official Israeli government websites.

This makes it so clear that Israelis definitely did indiscriminately killings of significant scale of their own people as obviously Hamas wasn’t going to set fire to 200 people of their own, they would also not all be huddled up together in one place. If Israel’s defence managed to kill 200 Hamas without knowing they were Hamas it just goes to suggest the huge scale of deaths that were caused by Israelis killing their own.

But of course they will never ever admit or investigate how many they killed themselves. 200 Hamas mistaken as Israeli. The scale of the error is massive.

This doesn’t include the actual 1000s of Palestinian hostages (including women and a lot of children) they hold in Israeli prisons without due cause, just treatment or trial. Also without telling their parents / family members where they are. Of course we all know there is torture involved as well.

the scale and period of holding Palestinian hostages is ridiculous. Why is the world not up in arms for these hostages? Why is it only Israeli hostages that matter?

This.

I came across this video and thought of this.

www.instagram.com/reel/Cy3HoUvNlD0/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

On the subject of fact/fiction, is anyone aware of any evidence/estimate that Israel killed many of their own people apart from the video of that one female survivor who talked about how Hamas told her they will kidnap them but not harm them and then Israeli force arrived and started killing indiscriminately.

I came across this.

"Haiat cautioned, “This is not a final number. It is an updated estimate,” which may be updated again. The new figure includes 845 civilians and more than 350 troops, police, and security personnel. Some of the 239 people taken hostage by Hamas may also have been killed outright or shortly after being taken into captivity. Another 13 people remain unaccounted for. Numerous bodies have yet to be identified, but Israeli officials said most belong to terrorists killed while perpetrating the massacre."

www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/12/israel-revises-october-7-death-toll-after-agonizing-forensics/

And also this

Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. In addition, about 30 children were taken hostage by Hamas, the Associated Press reported.
But a video has been circulating on Instagram falsely suggesting that there may have been no deaths of children in Israel.
The video shows a since-deleted post from the World Jewish Congress’ Instagram page, which the video calls “A list of the children who were allegedly massacred on Oct. 7.” The video concludes with large red text at the end: “EXPOSED: Israel’s named victims of ‘October 7th massacre’ are copied from an article that was written in 2014.”
One user left a comment that said: “One has to start doubting if anyone really was killed.” Another said, “This is all planned and fake to excuse their actions and they thought the world would let them get away with it.”
It appears that the Instagram post by the World Jewish Congress an organization representing Jewish communities globally shown in the video does repeat some of the names included in a list from 2014 of children who had been killed in Israel over the preceding years.

www.factcheck.org/2023/11/dozens-of-children-died-in-hamas-oct-7-attack-on-israel-contrary-to-online-claim/

There is something on Haaretz about a Helicopter killing some of revelers .
.

Some of you on here are making me physically sick. I'm not commenting on what's happening in Gaza and my opinions on it but denying what happened on October 7th? All to justify hatred of Israel. It's ok to hate what happened then and hate what's happening now. The irony is this was meant to be a thread about propaganda and all I've read is propaganda. Some of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves. And if you're any sort of decent person like you believe you are take 5 mins of your time to read this and think about all this time you're spending online spreading hatred and achieving nothing. tovaleigh.com/blog/this-post-is-for-people-who-are-not-directly-impacted-by-this-war

Look at this investigation, obviously it will be determined as notindependent but it is the best anyone can expect. Excerpt is:

“But back to the Hannibal directive. We have to question whether it was put into play on October 7. Because we not only have the Erez Crossing where many soldiers were killed – And if you look at the aftermath, the roof was clearly brought down. There’s serious structural damage to the roof of Erez Crossing – You have Kibbutz Be’eri where there was tank shelling, and then you have these Apache helicopter pilots in the air who were stating in their testimonies in Hebrew to Israeli media that they had no intelligence, no way of distinguishing civilian from combatant on the ground.
And yet they were told to empty their tanks, completely unload their ammo, then head back to the base, get filled up again, reload, and then go shoot as many cars and people as they could on the ground. Pure chaos. These testimonies have been totally ignored, by the way, by Western media. Were they encouraged to kill captives or shoot cars that they thought contained captives? We don’t know. What we do know is there were orders from the top to kill Israeli civilians if Hamas gunmen were around them in order to get the gunmen. And it’s like the same military doctrine that’s being employed in Gaza: Any civilian is a target if they are the “terrorist’s next-door neighbor.” Israel actually calls it the Neighbor Policy. They don’t know any other doctrine. They don’t have any other means of targeting and they weren’t prepared, obviously, for this military onslaught. So they went to their core doctrine of bombing everything in sight.”

Full link: https://therealnews.com/did-israels-military-kill-its-own-civilians-on-oct-7

I have not clicked your link as I am very directly impacted by this war, but that is none of your business.

I know that 780 civilians as declared by Haaretz were killed on 7/10. What I am rightly questioning (as should you if you are Israeli) is how many were killed by Israeli defence given 200 were admittedly Hamas burnt bodies which they couldn’t recognise given the heavy aerial attacks and tank usage that was conducted on that day.

This should make you sick.

Ok. Without the picture. Hamas released a picture of an anally raped woman with her Achilles heel cut so she couldn’t run away. On the 7th October. You’re either useful idiots or something far more sinister.

Lamelie and ayegazumba
everything I’ve mentioned so far comes directly from official Israeli investigations in Israeli publications .
and no one is denying oct 7.

They may as well have said "Protect our own and kill Hamas by targeting anyone and everyone even if they are our own"