Shocked by the racist signs at marches

[Pigeotto]

Maybe I’m just severely naive but I’m honestly just shocked at the levels of racism of some of the signs at these marches. It’s just caught me really, really off guard.

@Trulywonderfulworld that's fine, I just assumed everyone on this board would know as they have presumably been watching the news. But I guess you don't really see much of actual Hamas on the news, just the devastation that follows.

The woman who was holding the swastika Star of David sign was apparently a member of Labour against the Witch-Hunt who spent an inordinate amount of time defending obvious antisemites like Chris Williamson and saying they shouldn't be expelled from Labour.

The antisemites in Labour got very practiced at what they thought was plausible deniability to cover their antisemitism, trying to cover it as 'legitimate criticism of Israel' while hanging around in circles that promoted the usual conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the world became the 'Israel lobby' controlling the world. 'Jews' became 'Zionists'. But the way they talked made it clear it wasn't Zionists, it was Jews. Scratch the surface even slightly and you'd find Holocaust denial and more obvious stuff.

She and her husband have been in the Daily Mail claiming that the swastika in the Star of David is actually a symbol of peace and love. Anyone who believes that was her intention should let me know as I have a bridge I want to sell you.

She knew exactly what she was doing, marching with an swastika.

So it's very kind of you to think she made a poorly-judged mistake, but I believe otherwise.

I know. I thought when I read your post. Hold on I don’t remember writing a long post. 🤣🤣🤣.

I’ll change my username for this thread.
You were here first

This is a thread on racism and you don't think we should discuss what our different communities are feeling at the moment? How they feel about the marches?

Personally I think these are very valid conversations to be had on this thread. Sure nobody can speak totally for their own community. I mean for a start the saying goes two Jew and three opinions. However we can all give an insight into are own little bit of community or our own personal view as a Jew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or whatever. That is useful in stopping the whole situation causing a divide. If we understand where each other are coming from unless someone is genuinely to prejudice to listen we will at least start to have more empathy to each community. That is a good thing and goes towards stopping hate spreading.

At work we sit students down and get them to tell each other how they felt if disputes happen. Whilst you might get two teenagers that still don't agree on a situation. It does help them understand that there actions or the way they spoke to the other person upset them. This really helps to make students aware of how they use their words and to think about how they react in future.

Surely not another stalker I am getting a collection now

You'll be getting ideas above your station...

It is the woman with the coconut sign that I am really upset about.

The issue I have is she is a teacher. So like myself if she is working in a school there is no excuse. She knew exactly what she was doing. Even if she now makes up a I meant something different excuse.

If you work in a London schor any multicultural school in the UK at least a couple of times a term you have to deal with peer on peer abuse similar to this. The students call someone a choc ice or a coconut. Meaning a person of colour that acts like a white person.

Our students know this is wrong and nasty. So why this teacher would hold a sign up at a public event and be all smiling about her cleverness really annoys me. I think partly because she knows idiots or apologists will believe whatever her excuse for the sign is.

Yes, I just saw she's a teacher. Fucking horrible and brings shame to our profession. I hope she is banned from teaching.

Your fault Giraffe since you remembered me as Truly from covid my head has got to big.

Fancy the Giraffe remembering shy and quiet little old me😁

Appreciate your input on these threads I really do. It means a lot when non Jews speak up to point out things that are Jew hate or misinformation posted. I just more people would do the same.

f you can’t defend the people of Palestine’s aspirations to statehood because these aspirations didn’t exist until 1948, then Ukraine has even less right to be independent from Russia as it didn’t exist as a sovereign state until 1991.

Going off on a tangent here...

That would be like arguing Brits had no right to vote for Brexit. (Idiots, yes).
Because, you know, the Normans and Vikings came in throughout history...
Lands have been conquered since time immemorial.

Anyway, I'm out. There needs to be a two-state solution. I hate any kind of prejudice whether it's black/white, catholic/protestant, jewish/arabic....

We are human beings.

Why does it matter if you are white or not?

I've heard South Asians use the term towards one another loads of times. I think there's a difference between people within the community using the word with each other, vs a white person using the term. And I believe that the woman on the march holding the coconut poster was South Asian herself so maybe she thought it was ok. Given the context, I don't think her poster is that big a deal - certainly not the same level as one with a swastica.

I get where you see coming with that. Yes people often use certain words within their own community towards each other. However in this case she is a teacher and understands why this was wrong. If you work in a school in the UK you have certain types of compulsory training. She knew that sign was wrong and was aware she could get away with it via social media because people would make excuses for her such as you have done. Hopefully she will be sacked because this kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable and unprofessional in education.

I would take your point if the poster was something she presented in school, absolutely. But this was a march, not a school, and her poster was a specific reference to the political leadership and its attitude to both Gaza and towards that leadership's position on the rights of its citizens to protest. Having a beer at school would be unprofessional in education too, but we would not arrest a teacher for having a drink at the pub on a weekend.

It isn't how professionally behaviour for teachers or school staff is viewed. In our contracts it normally states we must not behave in a way that discredit the school or us as educators. At least something along those lines I forget the exact wording

Also the school has to provide all staff members with training for things like anti radicalisation, safeguarding and racism. This is a legal requirement for school staff. She has had this training and then behaved in this way. Therefore is fully aware of the implications.

Most schools would sack her for far less than what she has done. For example if it was said and a couple of parents or staff overheard. Let alone standing there smiling for a photo and ending up in the world press

Think about it as similar to using the Y word for Jewish people. Yes some Jewishpeople may use for each other. However some Jewish people find offensive even then. Therefore a school or another professional organisation frown upon the usage, even by a Jewish person. It wouldn't be professional and could upset parents at the school. So likely to be stackable offense because it is not upholding the values of inclusion within the school and brings the school into disrepute.

See another example of how parents of the same heritage as the teacher don't always agree with what is basically an racial slur. Schools don't like or agree with this type of behaviour both in class or outside of school.

https://www.caribbeannationalweekly.com/news/local-news/jamaican-teacher-in-miami-allegedly-calls-student-with-dreadlocks-a-racial-slur/

Thanks for sharing the article, although I think it describes a very different situation. The teacher at the protest did not use any racial term toward any student.

Anyway I'm not going to push this further - I'll leave you to it.

I just see it as they can't think of anything new to say

These threads are also pretty repetitive though. The men with the headbands and the other people from last weekends march have already been discussed on a few other threads so presumably “repetition” of a topic of discussion is allowed?

Also it’s not true that no-one ever attempts to derail a thread about Palestinians (usually with a few “so you don’t care about October 7?” “So you support Hamas” posts)

I think it is the nature of the thread that if people keep coming on saying they saw no signs or people spreading hate etc then people are going to mention again the ones that are most recent. I mean we could all go back to the first couple of protests or the party in the streets after the pogrom in central London that some low lifes seem to have. However most people don't, it is just correcting in coming posts or a general discussion about how certain things made us feel or why they were wrong in case anyone doesn't understand

Also with people the police are still trying to trace someone like myself will show their image again. For obvious reasons

Yes I can imagine other threads will have derailing too. That is the nature of the beast that is mumsnet. I suppose sometimes people may genuinely have a legitimate reason to remind posters of the pogrom. If for instance someone is acting like Israel randomly started the excullated the conflict in October. However I am sure that can be used to change the subject on occasion or if someone is feeling emotional about what someone else has written. So like on these threads about antisemitism a certain amount of what seems like repetitive behaviour will happen.

I think my real bug bear with the repetitive thing is the pattern of behaviour we see from what are bad faith actors, as the saying goes. First the come on and act very like they are innocently asking a question. Then gradually it turns into them trying to work there way through various tropes about Jews behaviour. Then a what seems like a list of words that they believe will upset people. It gets predictable and boring after a bit. Also derailing the threads at the same time.

That reminds me

Also

Plus the police are wanting to trace these fuckwits too

This.

and my bug bear is the repetitive behaviour on multiple threads by other “bad faith actors” who consistently and baselessly accuse anyone with an opposing view or challenge they don’t like of being a “Jew hater” or “antisemite”. That one’s gotten really irritating too.

I think it is the nature of the thread that if people keep coming on saying they saw no signs or people spreading hate etc then people are going to mention again the ones that are most recent

Yes I can imagine other threads will have derailing too. That is the nature of the beast that is mumsnet. I suppose sometimes people may genuinely have a legitimate reason to remind posters of the pogrom. If for instance someone is acting like Israel randomly started the excullated the conflict in October.

So you’re saying that in both cases it’s the fault of the “other side”?

First the come on and act very like they are innocently asking a question. Then gradually it turns into them trying to work there way through various tropes about Jews behaviour. Then a what seems like a list of words that they believe will upset people. It gets predictable and boring after a bit.

I have honestly seen very little of this specific scenario.
Maybe you need to start applying Hanlon's razor a bit more.