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Conflict in the Middle East

What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

1000 replies

Flapjacker48 · 05/11/2023 09:34

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

OP posts:
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FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 20:05

noblegiraffe · 06/11/2023 22:53

MNHQ don't delete comments just because someone reported them.

No idea if true but if so good. Some people in some fora delight in a hidden game of reporting. In my time on various fora I report virtually nothing. Let free speech reign. And give the mods some peace.

noblegiraffe · 07/11/2023 20:07

Do you want a medal? Some people would prefer a forum that wasn't full of shitty comments. Like I said previously, you can go to twitter for that.

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 20:10

Sausagenbacon · 07/11/2023 15:59

I think that those who march in London on Armistice Day will show themselves up for what they truly are.

Which is what exactly?
Folks marching for a ceasefire/laying down of arms on armistice day, how inappropriate?
The march, despite the ignorant ramblings/fumings of some, will start well after the silence and will go nowhere near the cenotaph or Royal Albert Hall.
I do hope you have nothing inappropriate planned for armistice day. No inappropriate activities.
I may very well go - feel that I should.

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 20:13

noblegiraffe · 07/11/2023 20:07

Do you want a medal? Some people would prefer a forum that wasn't full of shitty comments. Like I said previously, you can go to twitter for that.

Am not on twatter. Don't like it. Cauldron of hate. Can't see twatter stuff. Annoys me that some folk persist in posting twatter links.

noblegiraffe · 07/11/2023 20:16

Right, so you don't like places that are a cauldron of hate but you disapprove of reporting and want to let free speech reign? Why do you think twitter is as it is?

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 20:18

I'm concerned that an ex RE teacher, by her own admission, is conducting herself in such an aggressive fashion on this thread @FordAnglia

Kitanai · 07/11/2023 20:18

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 20:10

Which is what exactly?
Folks marching for a ceasefire/laying down of arms on armistice day, how inappropriate?
The march, despite the ignorant ramblings/fumings of some, will start well after the silence and will go nowhere near the cenotaph or Royal Albert Hall.
I do hope you have nothing inappropriate planned for armistice day. No inappropriate activities.
I may very well go - feel that I should.

Well this lovely group have also confirmed they will be attending the march too, previously convicted for driving through the streets and shouting delights such as ‘fuck the Jews’ and ‘rape their daughters’.

Will you enjoy their company?

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/16/convoy-drives-through-london-shouting-fk-the-jews-rape-their-daughters-14590888/amp/

I doubt very much that the ‘laying down of arms’ is featuring highly in their list of reasons to be there.

I can’t decide if those who insist most are there for ‘peace’ are useful idiots, disingenuous or just love a good march against the oppressor de jour.

Convoy drives through London shouting 'f**k the Jews, rape their daughters'

'Vile, criminal hatred like this must not be tolerated.'

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/16/convoy-drives-through-london-shouting-fk-the-jews-rape-their-daughters-14590888/amp/

Stomacharmeleon · 07/11/2023 20:27

@Kitanai a combination I think.

Listen peeps I am all for a bit of well heated debate but can we not be personal. @FordAnglia ex Job is not relevant. Someone did that to me recently..... implied they knew more about me than I care to talk about.... and it's frightening.

I don't agree with them but please......

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 20:35

Stomacharmeleon · 07/11/2023 20:27

@Kitanai a combination I think.

Listen peeps I am all for a bit of well heated debate but can we not be personal. @FordAnglia ex Job is not relevant. Someone did that to me recently..... implied they knew more about me than I care to talk about.... and it's frightening.

I don't agree with them but please......

My apologies. Somebody boasted they were an RE teacher. I do think that's relevant in this particular conflict but it wasn't ford Anglia, I know that now.

Sausagenbacon · 07/11/2023 21:20

I can’t decide if those who insist most are there for ‘peace’ are useful idiots, disingenuous or just love a good march against the oppressor de jour.
As Douglas Murray said, why all this marching now. Not when Muslims are killing fellow Muslims?
Anti semitism, that's why.

Convoy drives through London shouting 'f**k the Jews, rape their daughters'

'Vile, criminal hatred like this must not be tolerated.'

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/16/convoy-drives-through-london-shouting-fk-the-jews-rape-their-daughters-14590888/amp/

Trulywonderful · 07/11/2023 21:33

Sausagenbacon · 07/11/2023 21:20

I can’t decide if those who insist most are there for ‘peace’ are useful idiots, disingenuous or just love a good march against the oppressor de jour.
As Douglas Murray said, why all this marching now. Not when Muslims are killing fellow Muslims?
Anti semitism, that's why.

There is definitely some truth in that

Also when Asad in Syria wiped out 7400 Palestinians in a few days the Arab world didn't hold massive protests. People in the west spoke about it for all of about 24 hours that was it.

Not to mention the fact the Palestinians were torture and raped by Syrians in the months leading up to their deaths.

What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?
DevonWindyWeather · 07/11/2023 21:41

The individual (s) who punched the 78 year old veteran selling poppies in Edinburgh don't appear to be marching for peace. They are appallingly punching a man who is selling poppies . Just thugs and cowardly at that.

DevonWindyWeather · 07/11/2023 21:46

Sausagenbacon · 07/11/2023 21:20

I can’t decide if those who insist most are there for ‘peace’ are useful idiots, disingenuous or just love a good march against the oppressor de jour.
As Douglas Murray said, why all this marching now. Not when Muslims are killing fellow Muslims?
Anti semitism, that's why.

The marches are dragging out some awful people who hide amongst the majority of marchers. They feel emboldened marching along whilst they shout, sing and chant vile things or punch 78 year old veterans. Sadly some other idiots join in.

As other poster said they didn't bother to march when Syria killed thousands, no interest at all then! Why?

Parkingt111 · 07/11/2023 21:58

Why is it so difficult for some of you to accept that people are genuinely upset by what is happening and the fact that our government will not advocate for a ceasefire?
There are hundreds and thousands of people marching from all backgrounds and walks of life.
Do you all honestly believe they are only marching because they hate Jewish people?
And no it does not excuse the minority who display any form of anti semitism,
I deleted this post and re wrote and then deleted again then wrote it again
And I'm sure il get alot of hate for it but i just want to tell you that there really are many many genuine people who go because they are upset at our government, not because they are anti semitic

Parkingt111 · 07/11/2023 22:00

I have never seen such vilification of hundreds and thousands of people because of the actions of a small minority

Jupitersstorm · 07/11/2023 22:01

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 20:10

Which is what exactly?
Folks marching for a ceasefire/laying down of arms on armistice day, how inappropriate?
The march, despite the ignorant ramblings/fumings of some, will start well after the silence and will go nowhere near the cenotaph or Royal Albert Hall.
I do hope you have nothing inappropriate planned for armistice day. No inappropriate activities.
I may very well go - feel that I should.

Another wilfully naive poster.

Jupitersstorm · 07/11/2023 22:05

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 17:41

Douglas Murray is a revered commentator, who's got the backs of Jewish people. In doing so, he is not igniting hatred towards Muslims but highlighting the (particular) people who walk amongst us, who want anything but peace. We have seen videos of those very people, who walk the streets of London, among other places. Do you want to feel safe or not?

This 100 %.

These are nothing but thinly veiled hate marches by people who would have been emboldened by getting away with using fireworks as missles against the police, shoving over 78 year old poppy sellers, awful anti semitic placards and chants - and nearly all using the protection of civil liberties not found in some other contries. It's hardly a small minority of these protestors chanting and infringing the law.

From a well respected KC - Lord Alex Carlile KC CBE Freedom of Information Commissioner:

"Why are the police so ignorant of the law? Their behaviour at the Gaza demos on the past four Saturdays does them no credit. The police are there to uphold the law. If they don’t know it, how can they expect the respect and praise which all decent citizens would like to offer to them?
Hamas is designated as a terrorist organisation and banned in the UK and several other countries (including Australia, Canada, and the USA) In France all pro-Palestinian demonstrations are prohibited as a result of the Hamas pogrom on the 7 October. This means that there are adverse consequences for supporting, or inviting support, for proscribed terrorist organisation.
There is a strong argument for codifying all UK counter-terrorism laws into a single Act of Parliament. It would certainly help the police. However, even without such consolidation, it would be reasonable to expect those who police demonstrations to have read section 12 of the Terrorism Act 2000, the statutory backbone supporting all subsequent additions to the law.
Under section 12(3) it is a criminal offence to “address a meeting and the purpose … is to encourage support for a proscribed organisation or to further its activities”. The maximum sentence if convicted in a Crown Court is 14 years imprisonment.
Under section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2006 it is also a serious criminal offence to “publish” a statement (for example in a flyer or pamphlet handed out at a meeting) that glorifies a terrorism act and “could reasonably be expected to infer that what is being glorified is being glorified as conduct that should be emulated by them in existing circumstances.”
Then we have Part III of the Public Order Act 1986, an Act that is meat and drink for the police when dealing with individual and group public disorder. Part III deals with racial hatred, which means “hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins”. Plainly that would include all Jews and any other Israelis, and of course citizens of Gaza. The use of threatening words or behaviour, or the possession of racially inflammatory material, are offences if “having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up.”
That incomplete explanation of available powers needs to be read in the context of “existing circumstances”. As with so many situations, context is key. A casual if provocative comment in the pool room of a local pub may be very different in effect from speaking to thousands at a demonstration in favour of killing Jews or driving us out of Israel, or handing out pamphlets to the same effect, or chanting “From the River to the Sea”.
That chant demands a State of Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, erasing the State of Israel and its people. Its history is as a refrain and anthem for terrorist groups calling for Israel’s destruction. Every single person chanting it at a demonstration by now is well aware of its context. Each demonstrator runs the risk of committing one of the criminal offences I have referred to.
More importantly, the police must now understand that they have the power to arrest the leaders of demonstrations, and the distributors of offensive documents; and they should also warn the organisers before the demos begin of the legal risks they are running.
The existence of free speech is a proud boast which we make with pride in our country. However, it is not unconditional. As the political philosopher David Selbourne has repeatedly reminded us, freedoms exist not in a vacuum, but rather in balance with duties as citizens. One of those duties is to obey the law passed by parliament.
There have been calls for strengthening counter-terrorism law in the current maelstrom of issues and horrible events. Such changes are not necessary. It would be a political decision to react to present circumstances by passing yet more laws. The proposals inevitably would face considerable opposition in both Houses of our parliament, where necessity and proportionality are rightly scrutinised with a legislative toothcomb. I hope that I have illustrated that the existing law is sufficient if used well and wisely.
Of course there are other types of law, for example that governing international human rights and war. It is not directly relevant to the conduct and policing of demonstrations; but it is highly material to the judgements inevitably made of nations and their leaders. This is an especially difficult challenge where, as at present, there is an asymmetrical war between a large and murderous terror group which uses hostages as human shields and as bargaining chips, and a well-armed nation state.
We should not lose sight of the continuing horrific crimes being committed by Hamas; and should heed the caution given by many international leaders and diplomats in reminding Israel that, in justly defending herself, the death and wounding of innocent civilians should be a last resort of the necessities of defensive warfare."

HaveALaff · 07/11/2023 22:07

All the protests that I have attended in the past have been peaceful. I don't think anyone attended a march for a ceasefire is promoting hate and for anyone to suggest that is ridiculous.

DevonWindyWeather · 07/11/2023 22:07

Parkingt111 · 07/11/2023 21:58

Why is it so difficult for some of you to accept that people are genuinely upset by what is happening and the fact that our government will not advocate for a ceasefire?
There are hundreds and thousands of people marching from all backgrounds and walks of life.
Do you all honestly believe they are only marching because they hate Jewish people?
And no it does not excuse the minority who display any form of anti semitism,
I deleted this post and re wrote and then deleted again then wrote it again
And I'm sure il get alot of hate for it but i just want to tell you that there really are many many genuine people who go because they are upset at our government, not because they are anti semitic

It's awful seeing the deaths of so many.
Lots/most people are or feel powerless to change this.
I watched mothers of children taken hostage pleading for all children to be released, and be safe.

Sadly there are others who will use the marches to spread more hatred.

Anyone would surely want negotiating to work. It is truly dreadful. I hope the hostages are released soon and a ceasefire quickly sorted and an agreement but sadly so far it doesn't look great.

😪

HaveALaff · 07/11/2023 22:09

Just saw a post that a truck full of water has been bombed ... We aren't okay with innocent civilians having no access to water. Poor children, poor elderly, poor pregnant women. I will protest for them.

OuiOuiKitty · 07/11/2023 22:13

HaveALaff · 07/11/2023 22:09

Just saw a post that a truck full of water has been bombed ... We aren't okay with innocent civilians having no access to water. Poor children, poor elderly, poor pregnant women. I will protest for them.

Israel bombed the water source for a refugee camp the other day and have systematically bombed all of the bakeries in Northern Gaza. They've also been targeting places with solar panels on the roof to prevent people from being able to provide their own power. It's shameful.

EasterIssland · 07/11/2023 22:14

Jupitersstorm · 07/11/2023 22:01

Another wilfully naive poster.

@Jupitersstorm why can’t you be respectful to those that have a different opinion to you insulting them ? Is this your way of arguing with others ?

Parkingt111 · 07/11/2023 22:14

DevonWindyWeather · 07/11/2023 22:07

It's awful seeing the deaths of so many.
Lots/most people are or feel powerless to change this.
I watched mothers of children taken hostage pleading for all children to be released, and be safe.

Sadly there are others who will use the marches to spread more hatred.

Anyone would surely want negotiating to work. It is truly dreadful. I hope the hostages are released soon and a ceasefire quickly sorted and an agreement but sadly so far it doesn't look great.

😪

Edited

It really really is
I want the same as you, Ceasefire and the hostages released and for people to just be able to live in peace and harmony

And I know there are many conflicts happening but alot of people feel that in this instance our government has taken a bold stance that they don't agree with

Parkingt111 · 07/11/2023 22:17

This conflict has affected so many and I think it's partly because the people of Gaza are trapped, they have nowhere to escape unlike many other conflicts
And in such a tiny space too, and their essential lifelines are being bombed one after another
There are over a thousand people who are either stuck or now deceased under the rubble whose bodies are decomposing there. They can't even give them a funeral.
Why can't people understand why others would be upset about this and not just because they have a ulterior agenda

Jupitersstorm · 07/11/2023 22:22

EasterIssland · 07/11/2023 22:14

@Jupitersstorm why can’t you be respectful to those that have a different opinion to you insulting them ? Is this your way of arguing with others ?

I was just expressing my opinion and there are many, many posts that are far more vociferous so actually, I consider that comment in line with the tone of many posts on Mumsnet. So to answer your question - not looking to argue, just expressing my point of view. I do not consider my post to be disrespectful whatsoever.

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