Sunak and Herzog - live now on BBC

[stopitstopitnooow]

Live from Israel, quoting Churchill etc.

I really rather wish we weren't taking sides in this conflict.

Which demonstrates that you're not a westerner. Interesting discourse. I'm obviously wasting my time.

It is true we’ve had decades of peace here, and long may it last. It makes people post as such.

Would you rely on allies?

Can you answer if you still see them as important

What?

Our western values then. Blimey like blood out of a stone.

Do you see our allies as important?

I’ll be honest, if war hits us all I’ll have no choice but to side with the usuals as they have good weapons.

But if I can see these “friends” leading me and my family down a black hole of building up enemies by murdering innocent children, with little care or thought that I and my family might one day in turn become someone’s “collateral damage“ then you can be damn sure I’ll speak out.

Me too.

So many think anti Israeli
government equals antisemitism and it's just not true.

My support is for humanity not sanctioned mass murder on either side.

I’ll be honest, if war hits us all I’ll have no choice but to side with the usuals as they have good weapons.

More to the point they’ll side with you because your country has pretty much done as they have, for a reason. To get strong support if it’s ever needed.

(‘Our’ country for those that care about precise wording)

I’m all right Jack. And couldn’t give a shit about anyone else. That’s your thinking is it?

Agree with posters wishing the PM wouldn't proclaim to represent all of us. Although I knew Rishi would visit after Biden did. Interestingly, I have seen a lot of negative comments towards the visit, many people asking why he isn't in the occupied Palestinian territories too, since so many have died and are still dying there. He doesn't have to visit Gaza itself, but he could show support to the oppressed people suffering through lack of supplies and relentless bombing.

You either rely on allies or not. I do. I suspect you and others would, in fact you’ve just said as such.

Aggro mn posts don’t qualify. Push comes to shove you and everyone else would like US etc to support in return. That’s the point of allies.

There are a great many credible threats facing the UK right now, from militaries and terrorist groups alike. It’s impossible for every UK citizen to fully agree upon how best their leaders should defend against them but suppose the worst happens? I bet few would prefer it to go down without a fight or the support of friendly nation states.

Although Israel is located in the Middle East, they are very much part of the Anglo sphere and Europe.

Just look at the major tournaments they take part in - football and Eurovision, for example.

Exactly. Which is why it worries me so much that there are so many Palestinian supporters in the uk.

Sunak is showing himself to be another warmongerer when we need leaders who are strong enough to seek peace. As others have said, he should have gone to the Palestinian territories as well as Israel to show support for innocent civilians on both sides. He does not speak for me, he speaks for those with a vested interest in supplying arms to pointless wars.

This is starting to sound islamophobic to me.

Sunak can't support the Palestinians.

Lots of lovely generalisation. Really makes for a reasoned, intelligent debate.

What bothers me is not his support for Israel but the absence of any expression of concern for the Palestinian civilians.

Why can't he acknowledge that both sides need to stop killing each other? Otherwise, nobody "wins".

Are you volunteering for the IDF then, @Coveescapee ?

I think people need to be realistic on the threats

Biden, and therefore Sunak, are prioritising stopping escalation in the region, they will support Israel but will also use influence get movement on aid

There is a Palestinian land without Hamas, it’s called the West Bank . Israel are cruel and brutal to them as well despite no Hamas. We shouldn’t let racism and islamophobia justify the mass murder of civilians if we have any humanity. I don’t think we do have any humanity left. We are just primitive creatures picking sides based on a shared culture and history. Sunak has no humanity if he wants this blood shed of vulnerable people to continue.

No of course I'm not @IClaudine I just want peace and I'm a woman and happen to think men cause all the violence in the world. I'm just angry at those who won't even acknowledge what Hamas have done - was just reading about Artists for Palestine who have written a letter supporting Palestine which didn't even mention Hamas and was feeling angry about that. But don't want to derail.

Biden, and therefore Sunak, are prioritising stopping escalation in the region, they will support Israel but will also use influence get movement on aid

Not good enough to trot over to Israel for a cheap photo op and support genocide in exchange for a few trucks of aid.If they truly want to stop escalation they need to openly support civilians on both sides and denounce barbarity coming from both sides.

I believe the UK abstained from a UN vote for a humanitarian pause, see The Guardian's reporting on this. The proposal was to allow humanitarian aid to enter, to pause the fighting and to lift the order for civilians to evacuate the north. The US vetoed it, as it did not mention Israel's eight to self defence. The UK abstained as it did not reference Palestinian civilians being used as human shields. It seems the UK and US felt it was too restrictive on Israel's response. 12 out of 15 members of the security council supported the motion, including France and Japan, making the UK part of a significant minority vote. In my view, we should seriously re-evaluate our position, since while we need to support Israel's right to security, we must also aim to be part of a responsible global community who say it matters how that is done.

Then you are an "armchair warrior", as you accused people on the left of being in your thankfully deleted post.