Sunak and Herzog - live now on BBC

[stopitstopitnooow]

Live from Israel, quoting Churchill etc.

I really rather wish we weren't taking sides in this conflict.

I think you know very little about this topic.

For example do you know how many Irish men fought for the British Army during WW2 and how many Irish nurses worked in British field hospitals?

Because often decent people choose to support or criticise an action based not upon how much they would like to live with the people doing it, but upon whether the action itself is appropriate or not.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/dec/31/secondworldwar.ireland

Um, people who support the Palestinian civilians in Gaza are not supporting Hamas. I've only pointed this out about 12 thousand times on these boards. It's a sign of perversity not to comprehend this - or is that deliberate.

We all know that Hamas are utter monsters, but the Palestinian people deserve better than to be killed, wiped out, written off due to what their leaders are doing. They're victims as much as the Israelis who were killed and kidnapped.

Never thought I’d have an occasion to type this but it did feel like Rishi spoke for me when he voiced support for Israel’s defensive actions within the confines of international law. I felt physical relief through my whole body. Lately it seems like so many people have forgotten why the state of Israel exists, and how tiny and alone it is, surrounded by enemies.

The alternative to Israel winning this conflict is unthinkable. I just hope and pray it happens sooner rather than later.

Churchill’s policies deliberately and needlessly starved millions of people, including children, and there are still people who revere him. Those famine victims were not launching rockets into England daily, they were no threat at all.

Yes. Because they were neutral. They didn’t officially support one side more than the other. Unlike most of the Allies Ireland was colonised rather than a coloniser. WW1 was not their war and having recently gained independence and been through a civil war they tried to officially stay out of WW2 also. But many Irish people fought or nursed on the Allied frontlines.

It’s simply not possible to support the Palestinian people without holding Hamas responsible.

I also hope Israel’s population doesn’t get drawn into something bigger but Netanyahu seems hellbent on making as many enemies as he possibly can.

We join with our allies on this as should we need it each one on mn would be grateful for that allegiance in return

So they're to be regarded as collateral damage?

I'm a Christian, I'm not going to regard anyone as collateral damage.

Indeed. I thought these words were very heartwarming:
"Speaking as he arrived at the airport, Rishi Sunak said: "I'm here to express my solidarity with the Israeli people.
"You have suffered an unspeakable, horrific act of terrorism and I want you to know that the United Kingdom, and I, stand with you...."and
"He added that he knew Israel was "taking every precaution to avoid harming civilians - in contrast to the terrorists of Hamas".

Hamas is responsible for its citizens. If anyone sees the plight of the Gazan people as collateral damage it’s Hamas.

Hamas could bring the suffering of its people to a close much sooner by returning the toddlers and grandparents and other hostages but they won’t.

I really don't know how he can say that. Israel cut off water, energy and food to the civilian population. They have been blocking humanitarian aid. That's enough to harm civilians before you even take into account the 'collateral damage' when Israel bombs buildings it claims were hosting Hamas. Sunak is just proving what again he is a lightweight with no integrity.

Should you need it, ie in a time of threat or war
not peace, who would you rely on to help you defend those Christian values?

He does sound keen on opening up aid:

""The prime minister thanked Prime Minister Netanyahu for his support for the British nationals who have been taken by Hamas and both leaders agreed to work closely together to secure their freedom.

"The prime minister welcomed Prime Minister Netanyahu's announcement yesterday on opening up aid access to Gaza. He emphasised the importance of establishing sustained access to get more vital food, water, medicine and fuel into Gaza and to enable British nationals trapped there to leave."

This sounds promising and I am delighted with his stance.

How many civilians of hostile nations do you think the UK and its allies killed before the last world war was over? It is possible to feel relief that your side wins a conflict whether it’s regional or global without downplaying the terrible price paid by civilians as ‘collateral damage’.

Erm, nobody would actually be defending my Christian values. This country is no longer Christian and 'Christian values' are personal to the individual and between them and God. No defence is needed.

You're ignoring what I said.

More whataboutery.

Who would you rely on to defend your Western values then?

Or bluntly who do you and @MissyB1 rely on should a war happen

And the damage to Gaza is constantly downplayed.

Here's the answer:

"Civilian deaths totalled 50–55 million. Military deaths from all causes totalled 21–25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war."

What war would you envision happening? And how might it be precipitated?

I’ve spoken a bit more about your phrase ‘collateral damage’ in a subsequent post.