Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 4 - all welcome

[mummycat1]

Starting new thread with massive congratulations to Nanoo I reckon the old man can wait till he gets home! But of course - it's up to you really xxx

MM, hope you get better news at the next scan. I will be crossing my fingers for you.

MM it sounds like Cerubina has had the same experience and it was normal I hope that at your next scan everything looks great.

I am going to go very self centred now as I have had such a low day. Very very stupidly I took a POAS today which clearly came out BFN. Obviously it is extremely early doors and all that but I am finding it so hard to concentrate on anythng else. I already suffer from insomnia but this has all made it 10 times worse and i am hardly getting any sleep at all. I also went to see a MN friend today who has just given birth to her second. I felt like it hadn't affected me at all but it very obviously had a profound effect which is why I did the test. I have been very tearful as it has just dawned on me what having a second child means to me. I have tried so hard to put my feelings aside and be realistic but really all i've done is mask my real feelings until they all came errupting out today (lack of sleep has not helped either). I am fairly convinced I am not pregnant so much so I have already booked an appointment on Monday for the doctor to give me some medication to help with the sleep. It doesn't help that my DP is going to NY as soon as I've done the test so whatever the result I will be alone. Sorry to be so miserable guys - just needed to tell someone.

Big group hug for Amberc and MercenaryMom, followed by lots and lots of chocolate biscuits and a cup of tea. Italiangreyhound, not sure why you sent MercenaryMom a pair of boobs

IG - thank you very much for my very own post, I like that kind of attention (I am quite high maintenance...). I actually live in a semi-rural town half way between Leeds and Manchester and I get the train into Manchester every day. I won't ruin your delusions illusions of what I do and will go with rocket scientist! My hospital where I will be having all my scans and blood tests is (obviously...) in the opposite direction in Halifax, but my lovely boss says that I can work out of the Leeds office or from home when I need to if that will make it easier for me.

Went shopping tonight and treated myself to some nice comfy but stylish clothes and some Ugg boots to make myself feel better during my treatment - IVF chic! (Don't judge me, it's just how I deal with things!).

Looking forward to next week's OBEM already!!!

Amberc Thinking of you, sorry it has been such a crap day. Whatever feelings you have it is best to get them out and take a look at them but I agree, sometimes we push those feelings down so we are not sure what they are! Hopefully you can get your head around it all and acknowledging those feelings will NOT mean that that is how you will always feel. You can start to feel better and I usually do once I have at least looked at things in the light of day but it is very hard and very normal to feel like this. [wish there was a sending a hug icon]

MM still thinking of you.

Idreaminchocolate they are biscuits, not boobs, would be crazy to send a lady a pair of boobs when what she needs is a couple of chocky biscuits!!

Sorry to hear about your job at the rocket science laboratory but glad your boss is so good. Ugh boots, they sound awful posh!

How is everyone else?

When should I give up the booze? Is 4 weeks before egg collection, does OK does that sound about right? I can?t face the waiting without a tipple and I am not a big drinker (that?s a tipple not a triple) but want to give it my best shot. As these are donor eggs I am not sure how much my booze may affect anything BEFORE embryo transfer, though clearly turning up at the clinic on day of ET the worse for wear would be a no-no!

Thanks for the chocolate biscuits or boobs - all gifts much appreciated!

More bad news from me I'm afraid, since I started to bleed fairly heavily last night. Pretty sure that it means the end of the road for this cycle. I don't think the fact that I'm not pregnant anymore has sunk in yet, but in a way it feels kind of a relief since at least for the first time in several months I have a definitive answer.

It just seems that it wasn't meant to be, since things started going wrong from the moment my first 5 frosties perished on thawing. With no frosties left, we're now going to have to decide if we want to start all over again or be content with what we have (a beautiful DD).

Enough about me! Amberc I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a bad time. Big hugs and chocolate biscuits (or boobs) headed your way.

And well done Idream - I think I'm going to follow your lead and treat myself to some nice new (non-maternity) clothes!

Oh MM that's really sad. My DP and I said we would try twice and then stop. I wonder if I will still be saying that ater two attempts though even though we have a wonderful DS. We do need to count our blessings I guess but I know it doesn't rally work like that. I don't suppose biscuits are strong enough at the mo - they don't do a wine emoticon do they?

So sorry MM. Hope you are OK. I have bad news along the same lines myself. I went back for my second scan at the EPU, and the baby is not measuring right for my dates, only half the size it should be, nor was there a heartbeat. They said to come back in a week and they will scan again, but we know it is all over.

Just feel so sad. Two miscarriages in a row, both in February - I HATE this month. Why on earth am I not being allowed to have a baby?

We think we will have some tests done privately now to see if we can rule out a problem, otherwise I don't think I can stand for this to happen again. Just can hardly bear to think about the shittiness of this situation.

MM and Cerubina, so so sorry to hear your bad news. You are both in my thoughts. Sending love and strength.

I am just catching up on this thread and I'm so upset at what Im reading, really feel for you both MM and Cerubina, cant find the words as nothing I say can help but thinking of you both.
I have my 7 week scan next week and I am kind of dreading it now in a way, just don't feel pregnant other than tiredness so don't know if its a bad sign.
I'll report in next Wed after the scan.
My thoughts are with penguin too

should have put penguin and isle, hope you are both ok too

I'm so sorry MM and Cerubina, I know I can't imagine what your feeling (yet) but I'm thinking of you both and sending you good vibes to get through this and best of luck for whatever you decide to do next

Amberc I'm sorry your feeling so down, don't lose all hope yet (easy for me to say) and I'm sorry your DP is going away, if you need someone to talk to please talk to us if it helps, its never good to hold everything in.

to everyone else, hope everyone has a good weekend.

Cerubina I am so sorry for you. I have no answers but it looks like you may be gong down the route of finding some answers privately and I really hope they will be helpful. I have heard things about St Mary's Hospital London. Anyway, I just hope you find somewhere good to get information.

MM so sorry for you. Thinking of you and sending chocolate boobs your way . You have a lovely DD, we do too, we thought about every which way, adoption in UK, adoption overseas, fertility treatment, donor eggs, currently looking at the donor eggs but next step may be adoption but I do see a point on the horizon when I may be in a position to just accept that have a lovely DD (aged 5) and maybe this enough. I doubt any of that helps you but if it does I am so pleased. Maybe it is a bit early to be thinking of all that and you just need to be nice to yourself for a while.

Amber Thinking of you. Sending positive vibes.

Rosie stay positive, thinking of you and sending you sticky vibes too.

Sorry Cetrubina I meant I had heard good things about St Mary's but you may not be anywhere near London. I also hope you will be really nice to yourself. I don't know if this is insensitive but have you found any way to remember the little ones, like planting a tree or something, maybe not straight away and it is not going to give you an answer but it may just give you some closure. Anyway, my miscarriage was a long time ago but I think I found it important to do something and I wrote in the miscarriage book at the hospital gynie ward. Thinking of you.

Oh Cerubina how terribly sad and puts my so called woes very much into perspetive. Sending lots of hugs and I will hope for a miracle at your next scan.
This thread is not having much fun at the moment is it?

Oh scrub that last comment cos I've started bleeding. To add to the woes of the thread in general.

Cerubina I am so sorry... I know its not a great help, but I certainly understand how you feel. At the moment I'm trying not to think about it too much, but when I do I just feel miserable.

Amberc very sorry for your bad news too. How disappointing.

Can't think of much else to say apart from: ladies, after what we've been through, I don't know about you, but I need a drink...

MercenaryM and Cerubina huge hugs. Can't believe this is happening to both of you - it just shouldn't, it's so unfair. Almost nothing we can say will make any difference, but we're all here for you. Having some answers would be very good - I do hope they can get you some. Please pamper yourselves and take it easy. I've never suffered a miscarriage but can imagine how robbed you must feel after having done so much to get a BFP. Boobs and biscuits to you both.

Amber oh no! Is it a heavy bleed or could it be spotting?

Rosie hang in there for your scan, and then come and tell us how lovely your little miniRosie is looking.

BB - gotta love your sweet little DS!

Penguin - don't blame you at all for stepping back and giving yourselves some us time. I hope you start feeling better soon - believe me, you do eventually stop thinking about it every single minute of every day. I agree that most docs won't do additional tests after one failure, but it's certainly worth asking.

Will be sending you good vibes on the 3rd Kiwi ! Enjoy that blissful drug-free day on the 2nd.

Italian I've had similar thoughts about our donor. She's got similar colouring and hair, but different height and build. As long as any DCs don't look like total changelings, I've given up worrying about it. Here's a neat trick I did on myself while deciding whether to go with DEs: with OE babies I'd constantly look for myself / my family traits in my children. With a DE baby, they are bringing something entirely new and completely their own, and it'll be a joy to discover it. Sometimes I believe this and sometimes I don't, but it can be a comforting thought!

Idream LoL to IVF chic! I did my usual mid-cycle thing of buying something fitted that I won't be able to wear if it works. It's never conscious and I always do it! This time it's a slinky blue dress from Monsoon. I'm taking it to Greece to ensure I get at least one wear! Last time it was some bright red tailored trousers, time before that a silk top, time before that new bra - getting plenty of wear out of all of them!

Scan on Weds was fine, thick womb lining (just got bill for another £250 - ker-ching!), and we've been told that our donor's EC is Monday, with our ET expected Thurs. We're flying out tonight. I'm trying to think of it as a holiday with the odd visit to a clinic thrown in! And after DH has given his sample, and before ET, I reckon we're allowed a cocktail or two!

Just catching up on the thread. My thoughts are with you MercenaryM and Cerubina -I can't possible imagine what you are going through big hugs.

Idream i bought new uggs today so I'm def with you on IVF chic!

Still waiting on referal...it's gonna be a long wait I'm guessing.

Can I ask - What have you ladies told you work about you going for IVF? i don't want to tell them yet cos i don't know when the appointments etc will be.

xxx

Fairygodmother1 - I've struggled with the 'what to tell work' question, too. I work in a fairly male-dominated office and definitely did NOT want them to know I was trying to become pregnant!

In the end, during both IVF cycles I've been through I've used a combination of plausible excuses as to why I was a bit late into the office, working from home, holiday time and vague explanations about having a 'hospital appointment'. Since my managers have all been men, I think they assumed that my unwillingness to elaborate on the hospital appointments meant something female and potentially embarassing, so they didn't ask any details!

However, as I now have to decide if I'm going to start another IVF cycle from scratch, balancing the appointments and work is definitely one of my biggest anxieties. If anyone else has better suggestions, I'd love to hear them too!

Well it's not heavy bleeding but to me it looks like the start of a period.

Thanks MM,
I'm a teacher so it's gonna be harder with excuses! Any teacher experiences???

xx

Cerubina, MM and AmberC - so sorry to hear this news .

Bumpless - very best of luck with your EC.

I've told work that I'm having a 'procedure' and have made it clear that I don't want to talk about it. So far, so good, as I've spoken to the nice male MD, but if the scary female one starts asking questions, then I don't know what I'll say. I DO NOT want her to know, as that will be the end of any career hopes I had.

Had a scan yesterday, and my follicles aren't responding as enthusiastically as they should. I have 1 x 13 mm, 2 x under 10 mm on the right, and 1 x 13 mm, 1 x under 10 on the left, and not only are they small and there are not many of them, the ones on the left are hiding under my womb or some such. So I'm having another scan on Monday, and - assuming I have anything to harvest at all - possibly going for the EC on Wednesday, with a remote possibility of doing it on Friday instead. I'll have been on the drugs for 14 days by then, so maximum length of time they like, I think. Am pretty deflated by the whole thing, I must admit, but am trying to think positive, as that seems to be so much part of it. (Apologies to those who post on the Fab 40+ thread for repeating myself about this.)

Big hugs to everyone.

Cerubina Sorry, I spelled your name wrong last night! How are you doing?

Amberc so sorry for the bleeding. What's the situation? Thinking of you.

Yes, MercenaryMom drinks all round. I am sipping cheap red wine (actually it tastes great) and thinking of you all. Boobs, biscuits, chocolate, wine, the whole works for all of you lovely ladies....and yes, some answers, if you can find out anything to help.

Rosie thinking of you, I'm not superstitious but I've got my legs and fingers crossed for you!

Bumpless All the very best for EC and Et. Wow so exciting. We are not cycle buddies but I am so 'excycled' for you! Enjoy your cocktail.

Kiwi all the best and I have spoken to you on the feisty and forty thread too,

*Idreaminchocolate" - I used to think your name was I dream OF chocolate! How are you?

FairGodmother1 I have not told work anything about IVF ever. I told them I had a medical appointment if I had to tell them anything but took other time off as holiday leave. It is easier now as I work part-time but also I am not very high-powered, an administrator, and it is fairly easy to manage my work-load so that I can there when I need to be but also away when I need to be at an appointment. It pays to know as far in advance when things will happen but it is not always possible! However, just saying to my boss (who is a woman - not sure it makes any difference - I have had fertility treatment now under four or five different bosses) that I don?t know when the appointment will be seems to work! I have other ailments I could blame, bad knee and irritable bowel. I mean I just mention this or that appointment coming up and there don't specify which is which, does that make sense?

Bumpless totally know what you mean about Own eggs or Donor eggs. If there are medical things in my family, like my mum not being well or my dad dying from a heart attack (years ago) I think well those won't be jeans I will pass on! Oopse I mean genes! . If all things could be equal I would have wanted my own eggs. BUT now, knowing how unlikely it is for that to work, I feel very positive about donor eggs. Differences between me and donor reflected in the child (if there is one, please God) may mean the child is similar to me (just in the sense that they will be same ethnic origin) and similar to donor, and who will know if those similarities are because of donor. I mean my hubby and I have same colour hair so if baby has my/his hair colour no one (who doesn?t know about donor) would know who provided the hair colour. Does that make sense? One thing I read on the Internet was that once the baby arrives, if they do, you don?t want to change them so once there is a real person in question then I won?t want to change them including what genes they?ve got!

There may be some evidence that the womb switches on certain genes. There are various discussions on the Internet about whether recipients womb environment can cause different genes to be "switched on", so the baby would be different in the recipient's womb rather than in the donor's womb. I found lots of bits under the word 'Epigenetics' but the most interesting one seemed to be on a site at

There is also some chat at

which is on Fertility Friends under the title 'Epigenetics - Importance of Birth Mother'.

Bumpless You are probably now in Greece so will not read this until it is all done but whatever you are doing, enjoy an ouzo or cocktail or whatever, before ET! All the VERY best, thinking of you, God Bless, IGH.

Hi all. Had a pretty rough day today since I think all the bad news is finally sinking in for me. Its hard to think I was pregnant and now I'm not. Cerubina how are you doing?

Bumpless good luck in Greece! And have a glass of ouzo for me...

Kiwikat - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. It only takes one...

And now back to my glass of wine...