Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Hi all,

I am now just waiting for AF and gearing up for cycle attempt no. 7! Wish me luck!

I haven't got time to catch up with everyone so please forgive me - I'll get to it over the next few weeks but I just wanted to pipe up with the donor egg concerns with Bumpless and LL to say that these concerns are very real. I personally am facing this decision and I don't think it's helpful to dimish these very real identity concerns that the child will face. That's not to say I disagree with donor egg but the last thing in my mind that should be encouraged is not exploring them. I think they are huge - for example - how is the child going to feel knowing that her biological mother was potentially paid to provider them? How will that make them feel about their genetic background. Will they feel like it is a case of the wealthy paying the poor for improving their lives yet again (nannies, cleaners, prostitutes). Okay, I am throwing it all out there now, but I do really think that the ethics of this needs really due consideration and the emotional needs of the mother are only one set - the emotional needs of the potential child are in my mind more significant. My cousins were adopted and the biological/adoptive families have ended up feuding. At least in this case the adoptive families didn't create the identity problem but with donor you are creating the problem and so we have to think very hard about what problems will exist and if we choose to go ahead how we will deal with them. So good on you Bumples for pondering them . . .which ever way you go you will be better prepared.

Sorry about the rant - it's been on my mind! And LL this is not directed at you as I know you do think very deeply about these things, but perhaps it is only when you are really facing them you do you really start to acknowledge the complexities. . . .

I just read back my post and sorry LL it does sound a bit directed at you . . which was not my intention. (Esp. the 'you'd know if it had happened to you line- ouch) It's just that when I talk to friends/family who aren't facing this issue everyone just says 'it'll be fine, it'll be loved what more do you need, etc etc," And my sister who is going down the donor egg path is also diminshing all these concerns. I just feel like so much emphasis is put on on OUR needs because everyone feels so sorry for infertile women who have been through the IVF runner. So in effect, we have to ask these hard questions ourselves and personally I am glad that you can't pay for it in the UK or Australia. We are trying to think of ways in which to do this ethically - swapping sperm, helping a lesbian coulple. Anything really to keep the anonymity or sense of exploitation out of the picture. I don't want my child feeling that their biological mother was at the mercy of poverty . . . I want them to feel that it was a gift. Anyway . . . sorry folks for this rant, but as I said at the top everyone around me wants to dimish these issues due to sympathy . .

Hi

Bumpless - did you go through LWC London or one of the other locations? I am on their list for egg share and also at CRM so although I feel well looked after at the Lister (only had 10 general anesthetics in my life - every one at the Lister) I may look elsewhere given that their egg share list is years long! Susie

Hi all. Thanks for your warm welcomes. This is just a quickie, but i do agree that it does feel like "playing god" when we're using IUI and ICSI and IVF and donors etc. I am not completely comfortable with me having IVF and i am coming to terms with it over time. I never wanted to have "intervention" and didn't want to recognise the fact that I seemed not to be able to conceive naturally but the overwhelming urge to be a mother and to nurture a tiny human gets you in the end and you come to think.... well maybe it'll be ok in the end.

Hope you all have a good weekend. I will be going to Legs bums and tums at 9.00 tomorrow. It take my mind off the headache.

Hi everyone, sorry, I've been away on holiday for two weeks so not posted for ages. Meant to post before leaving but packing got a bit frantic!!

It's taken me a while to read all the posts! You have been busy.

Bluebell6 - I'm so sorry this cycle didn't work. You do sound like you and your DH are coping really well though. Stay positive. I'm sure a breather from all this is just what you need. And a holiday of course!

Bumbless - How awful. I can't imagine how you felt. Sometimes a good cry is just what's needed though. I hope you are feelling better now.

Hello to all the graduates - it really does make this thread so suppostive that you all still post. It's strange to feel so excited about people's pregnancies when you've never even met them but I can't wait to find out how you all get on.

Not a lot happened here as have been away, although returned to several of our first bills which is never nice!! I am waiting on my AMH result now and an appointment with the fertility nurses to talk us through procedures. That won't be for a few weeks so we are just enjoying normal life and trying not to keep much of a count of what day of the cycle I am on when we BD in the hope that we might just get lucky!!

Hello to everyone I haven't mentioned. Got to go and unpack!

Thanks LL for taking my rant so well, and I wouldn't worry about being a good mother. I think the whole process of IVF just lets us know how precious children are. There's no way we are going to take them for granted. I am actually quite intrigued to see how all my friends kids from 'older' parents turn out - my friends seem so much more connected and involved than any of the parents I grew up with. Its funny, until I wrote that post yesterday I hadn't realised how against paying for donor eggs I was. The idea of it needing to be a gift, an act of generosity is the key thing for me. I guess the other side of it is that before I had such a bad run myself my sister asked me to be a donor for her. I was actually really relieved when this wasn't possible. I found it to be such a challenging question . . .I don't think I could do it. Maybe it's different for men - sperm donor has been very successful - but the idea of my child out there but not being allowed to help it was too confronting for me.

Hi ladies
I am here - sorry for being absent. But have had two horrific weeks trying to finish work ending up with dangerously high blood pressure (thanks to work!) and now am 4 days from my due date. I have also been trying to spend as much time with my little girl before her life changes dramatically with the arrival of her little brother!

LL - I am about to send you an email to say Huge thanks for your card. you didn't have to, but was very sweet and kind. I hope you are doing ok and woo hoo on the kicks, they will get stronger . Good luck with the move.. don't stress too much.

To the rest of you lovely ladies, I promise to do a catch up, but I really need to go and sleep or encourage my DH to get down to business to try and encourage this lazy baby to get a move on. Have had lots of pre-labour signs, nights of contractions etc, but nothing seems to be moving, yet.

Before I go to sleep, I wanted to wade in on the Egg Donation discussion. I think I am only the only poster on here that has received eggs via an egg donor. I hope I am not disrespectful to anyone here through the following discussion. - if anyone wants to CAT me to discuss what I went through, please feel free to do so.

Most of you know that either Egg donation or adoption were my only routes to "achieving our dream of having a family" thanks to ovarian cancer 10 yrs ago. We debated (DH and I) for a long time about which route to go, and for me I personally wanted the opportunity to carry and birth my own child. the feeling was so strong. I also felt it important to give my partner, whom I love dearly (most of the time LOL), the opportunity to be a biological father.

Egg donation is not for all people, for whatever reason. It was for us and yes we paid for it. I have paid in excess of ?20k for two successful Egg donation IVF's. Most of this going on my treatment, some going to the egg donor for hers.

I had no issues paying for it and I still don't. No one coerces a woman to donate eggs, money is not the be all and end all objective of egg donation. Even in Spain, Ukraine and US. If a woman has no wish to donate, simply put, she won't. I have spoken to a number of egg donors and potential egg donors about this and they make this point emphatically, again and again. I respect any woman who can decide that she wants to help another woman out by "giving" something so precious. Egg donation isn't as simple as heading off to the mens loos and looking at dirty magazines, it is invasive and it is painful and for that reason, women who donate should be compensated, in my view.

We chose the anonymous route. My cousins offered and it was tempting, but I was worried about how they would handle it. We nearly went down a route with a woman known to us, who pulled out at the last minute, so we decided to use a programme my clinic had with a reciprocal clinic in the Ukraine. It has worked for us.

I am also very adamant about the fact that the egg donor is not a "mother" to my children. She is genetically linked, but I am often offended by anyone who uses the term mother to describe her. She is not my children's mother. I am. She gave me a tiny piece of them, I have nourished them through my blood, in my womb and birthed them and now nurturing them through my love. I am my child's mother. Just as my husband is my child's father. If I donated eggs to another woman, I would not ever feel that I was the child's mother or believe I have any claim to that child. Adoption, in my view, is very different again.

Dealing with ethical issues about where a child comes from is tough. However the Donor Connections network in the UK has really helped me understand the process of how to tell my child and when. For anyone considering this route, I would urge you to get in contact with them. Their research indicates the later you tell a child the more issues they will have in accepting their life. I have told my DD since the day she was born about her journey into this world. Having met children of all ages who have been conceived from donor sperm or eggs and listened to them, I have to say children deal with the facts in an expertly non-emotional way. We are the one's who dump our emotional baggage on top.

In my opinion the creation of identity problems can happen in biological children, adopted children and everything else inbetween. Poor parenting creates these issues for our kids. You only have to look on our streets in the Uk to see how many kids have problems. How we as parents deal with the creation of identity and the security of our children is at the crux of the issue, not how they were conceived. My brother has many issues over his identity, thanks to my parent's messy divorce.

My view on this is that you have to face things head on in order to deal with any potential flashpoints when a child is growing up. My dad disagrees with me. he thinks everything should be hidden away in an attic. My aunt (my dads Sister) adopted a brazilian boy when we were young, following the death of her firstborn son aged 5. We are white, he is black. His sense of security & identity are so strong, he has never once felt the desire to go "find" the woman who gave birth to him. My great aunt never told her 2 adopted children until they were in their 20's, guess what? they have significant issues over this. (not sure where I am going with this point!) perhaps all i want to say is that I think how you deal with the issues you are concerned about is the real key to success.

I too am constantly worried about how I will bond with my children. But I probably would be if my children were conceived from my eggs. I needn't be. My little girl is the apple of my eye as the next baby already is. My heart melts when I watch her grow up. will she hate me when she is 5 or 15 or 25, I don't know. But by giving her the love, security and trust she needs to become a rounded human being, I hope she can accept her beginnings and know she is loved so much not just by me, but by our entire family.

Right I am just rambling now!! - which is not good! . I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I hope that I haven't come across as some converted egg donation extremist. I am just trying to provide my personal experience and perspective to allow people to see what it is actually like on the other side of this. As I have said Egg/sperm donation are incredibly personal decisions to make, no one is right or wrong, it is just what is right for you, your moral compass and your family. This was the right decision to make for me.

Hugs and love to you all, I am off to bed with a cup of hot cocoa and to try and convince my body to do the right thing and go into labour.

Will catch up with you all soon

xxxxx

Morning ladies

Flibberty wishing you all the very best for the birth of your baby boy. Sorry to hear about the high BP (bloody work!) but am hoping to hear the happy announcement before too long.

Also very interesting to read people's thoughts on egg donation. It's one of things I love about this thread - things can be debated in a "safe" environment, which is very precious!

I just want to give a different view because I actually egg shared with my recent treatment at the Lister. I'm not sure now why I wanted to keep this to myself...but I did. Think I'd like to reveal it now as I guess I can provide a real world example of a egg donor.

Anyway, I had thought about altruistic egg donation in my 20s, and researched what it involved. Knowing I'd be advised to wait til my family was complete I had even discussed it with my now DH. Of course I thought we'd have no trouble conceiving the brood of kids I dream about so thought getting my family complete before 35 wouldn't be an issue! Once we were staring down the barrel of the IVF gun we decided to egg share. I had seen ads for it (Susie the ads I saw were for the LWC, on the tube, and Bridge Clinic, in Metro in case you do go down the advertising route) and figured it was now or never for my desire to help someone else have a baby. In a way, the advantage of doing it this way is that I have such a much deeper understanding of the desire to have a family and the pain of failing to conceive naturally.

We of course had implications counselling - which I appreciated, as I had discussed it ad nauseam with my husband so it was good to air it with a professional - and at no point would I have ever felt any baby was "mine". This is even if the recipient was successful while I wasn't, my logic being that at 31 and with financial resources we could emotionally and financially afford to have as many goes as it took to get pregnant. I have to agree with Flibberty that I would have been offended by anyone claiming I was the "real mother". Giving a genetic building block that grows in someone else's womb and is loved and nurtured and delighted over and disciplined and just parented by another woman is not comparable to giving a baby up for adoption imho. But that's my view and people are perfectly entitled to have a different one . I also had no problems with the lack of anonymity, as I think people should have a right to explore their genetic heritage should they want or need to.

I also want to emphasise that we didn't do this as a financial thing, though I'm sure the financial attractiveness of egg sharing is a real incentive for many. To be honest, at the Lister we still paid a couple of grand for ICSI and blast transfer so it's not really "free" for couples with male factor issues!

I'm not sure what I think about financial compensation, probably because I contemplated this as a fully altruistic egg donor so the money was never an issue for me. Having said that, I do have a friend who signed up with one of these US agencies years ago as she was struggling with debt and was "attractive" to wealthy US couples (high IQ, graduate of a top university, physically attractive etc). She never ended up donating - nearly did a couple of times - and I had mixed feelings about this 20-something potentially doing this. But she had thought long and hard about it and thought it was something she could handle (she would also have had counselling if it had happened). Her motivation was mainly financial but she was also wanting to help an infertile couple (she's still a close friend so I had the chance to talk about this quite a lot with her). Sooty I agree that there are issues about the wealthy paying the poor, but it's not that black and white if you can find a donor in Australia.

Anyway, I just found out that the recipient wasn't successful and I actually cried. I so wanted her, whoever she was, to have a baby that it was very upsetting to find out it hadn't worked for her. Not as upsetting as it must have been for her of course...

Sorry for the ramble! Have my first midwife appointment today and am strangely nervous...irrational I know after IVF!

Hope everyone is well and will catch up properly later.

Help ladies! I've just had a letter from our consultant to say that my AMH level has come back as 'very low' at 4. It says this means the possibilities of us conceiving through IVF are lower than he told us and has made an appointment to see us in 2 weeks.(He is away til then). I am gutted. Crying and so sad. I am now thinking he is going to tell us there is no point trying and I feel so disappointed. Does anyone have any wise words to help me get some perspective on this? I don't really know enough about this all yet to know what the implications are.

Hi Ladies

Been reading the donor posts with lots of interest - seeing all the different perspectives is actually helping me to process things in my own mind. It's also really striking how respectful of other views everyone is, what a nice environment for a very important debate! When we first came up against this, my sister offered immediately to be a donor, which I was massively comforted by as this would mean a baby I was at least partly related to. We were both comfortable with it, but both our husbands weren't, to the point where that wouldn't have been an option. I can understand why they felt it would be too difficult, so don't bear them any grudges, but for me that would have been the next best thing to having my own genetic child. And in fact, my sis is now 39 so it's unlikely that she would have been accepted as a donor, although we didn't know this at the time. Caitni I think it's wonderful that you wanted to help someone else with your eggs, and can quite understand that you were upset when it didn't work. In other circumstances, I would have wanted to be a donor too, even more so now knowing what it's like to face childlessness. Flibberty I think you have very sensible advice - and it looks like your family background has provided you with loads of perspective on the range of different ways families can be put together (and messed up). The comments that you and Sooty have both made about the emotional needs of the child have made me think more - embarrassingly, I'd thought more in terms of my own insecurities than of a baby's - now I'm thinking of that too, and will check out Donor Connections.

I don't think anyone's right or wrong in this. Tne money thing is complex. I certainly wouldn't want to put anyone through the many inconveniences and unpleasantnesses of IVF without making sure they at least didn't end up worse off. And I'm aware that since we weren't elibible for NHS support at all, all our attempts have only been possible because I have savings. Is that fair? Probably not, but I haven't felt like I have an unfair advantage over others who couldn't have afforded it, in fact, I'm mow anxious because I've run my savings dry and if we do anything at all next it'll be with the help of a bank loan. I do agree that the whole 'buying designer babies' thought is ghastly though.

So lots more mulling to do before I know where to head next, but this has been really helpful.

Flibberty your due date must be tomorrow, is that right? GOOD LUCK!!!! And LoL to getting your DH on the case to speed the baby's arrival up!

xSusie I've been with LWC London, and as I say, very impressed. Hope you get your donor soon.

LL Enjoy your last week in Blighty! I grew up in Geneva and my folks still live there so I go out about once a year. It's a bit different because it's the more French bit of Switzerland rather than the more German bit that Zurich's in, but it's a wonderful country to live in, I'm sure you'll be happy there.

Gingerwine so sorry to hear about the AMH levels. It can't be anything but horribly worrying for you, and what a shame you have to wait for 2 weeks to talk to your consultant. I'm trying to get my exact scores back from the clinic, can't remember what they were in all the kerfuffle, but I think they were similar and I still got to embryo transfer once, so even with poor results you can have a good cycle with a fair wind behind you. Hang in there, big hugs to you.

Hello all, I've been interested to read the varying perspectives on donor eggs - some food for thought in there. I can see how some people would struggle with the concept (and the whole "playing God" aspect of IVF) but personally for me the latter has never been an issue - having seriously considered becoming a doctor myself, having two of my closest friends as doctors and having an immediate family with a habit of getting cancer or other serious illness I fall pretty thoroughly on the interventionist side of the scale when it comes to medical processes. Plus I have had laser surgery on my eyes and plenty of surgery and processes on my teeth (messed around with in a car accident when younger), so have already taken steps to alter what nature gave me in that respect.

As for the position of children born via donor eggs, I can see the issues there for a child. I know a couple of people who have known since they were very little that they were adopted and they have always seemed remarkably well-adjusted about it, so I would hope that honesty and a loving family would help.

As for me - Gingerwine, I'm sorry to hear your news . My AMH is also very low , around 3.5 I think? I was told I'd have less than a 10% chance of an IVF cycle being successful. I discovered this after my first cycle was abandoned as I wasn't responding to the stimulation drugs. I'm on my second cycle now and just had my final scan today before EC on Wednesday and have managed to get to two good sized follicles and one small one, which my specialist is pleased with. Obviously there is no guarantee that there will be eggs in there, that they will fertilise and develop properly, and result in a pregnancy, but I do feel right now that there's a chance. It's not good news to hear, I know, but it's not a door being slammed completely in your face, there is still a chance. Talk to your clinic and see what they advise, I guess xx

Hi everyone

Sorry for this selfish post but am in work feeling crap with no-one to talk to.

The second of my close friends has just called me to say that she's pregnant with her third - due almost a month exactly after my first friend's second baby is due. I know it's very self indulgent but it just feels like a kick in the teeth. Have been working really hard on staying positive ahead of starting IVF and feel like this has really set me back. I can't cope with the thought of spending the next nine months watching them getting bigger and bigger while I bump along on the AC rollercoaster. Doesn't help either that all other aspects of their lives seem so bloody perfect either. I think I might go and live in Greenland for a few years.

Gingerwine - so sorry about your news. NPA is proof that it can be done though. I hope your meeting helps.

Hi to everyone else. xxx

Summermagic - Not selfish at all. Perfectly acceptable to feel crap and down at times. I bet their lives aren't perfect. Appearances can be very deceptive. Do these friends of yours know your situation? If they don't they may not even know how you feel and might be mortified to think they had upset you. On the other hand if they know then they should be more tactful really.

The not having anyone to talk to is the hardest part for me. I feel like I am lying to some of my friends for not confiding in them but I really don't want to share what's happening either!

You sound about as fed up as me at the moment!! Only last night I told my DH I was going to live on a remote scottish island to get away from it all, although now you come to mention it Greenland does sound like quite a good option. Can I come too?

Thank you NPA - You have cheered me a little. It just seems like a real kick in the teeth, and I feel like my body has failed me. I'm 37 but now thinking my body must think its a bit older! Good to hear that you have produced some follicles though and I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you tomorrow.

I have rung the nurses today and they advised I wait to speak to my consultant in 2 weeks time (How dare he have a holiday now?!!). She felt he would want to discuss whether it was worth tring IVF or the possibility of donor eggs. Only problem with that is they have closed the waiting list here because of lack of donors and are now sending people to Spain for egg donation. We
really couldn't do that as I have DC's from my first marriage and we can't just shoot off to Spain for a few days. Also I'm not sure finances would allow us to do that. It's all a bit depressing really. I found myself looking at adoption services on the net last night. I would quite like the idea, but I can't get my head around never holding a little baby of my DH's in my arms.

Hello to everyone else I haven't mentioned.

Hi, just a quickie cos I'm at work too -

But Summer you're not at all selfish. I know how you feel - one of my best friends got pregnant while waiting to start an IVF cycle at the same clinic as me a few months ago, and I sobbed for an hour when I heard. It's possible to be simultaneously glad for your friend and sad because it reminds you of what you haven't got, doesn't make you a nasty person, just human. (((Summer)))

NPA everything's crossed for you tomorrow! Sending lots of big healthy egg vibes to your follies!

Gingerwine I'm sorry you're feeling so low too, and grrr to your consultant for going away just when you need to talk to him! Might be jumping the gun, but are there any other clinics you can get to that do egg donation that wouldn't involve your going to Spain? On the other hand, you never know, maybe you'll be able to try IVF first...

BTW, has anyone had any experience of / heard anything about the Bridge Centre's Mind and Body course? I've read various things about it helping IVFers, and am wondering whether to have one last go with it.

Am also going to Zita West's clinic for a nutritional consultation on the advice of my acupuncturist.

Anyone else smell desperation???

Thank you Bumpless. I'll have alook for other clinics. Am in worcester. Does anyone know where else near us we could try? Am so fed up. Crying again. Should be painting the lounge!! To top it all AF started so it's all pooey!!!! I must try and cling to th hope that we can have a go first before admitting defeat. In my worst dreams I see my DS's getting to teenage years and deciding to go and live with their dad and me and DH missing them so much and having no DC's of our own to care for. How long before it's acceptable to have a glass of wine?!!

Sorry I can't help with info about Mind and Body course. I'm not sure I'm much help to anyone at the moment!

hi everyone, back from my break from internet, even abandoned facebook, but that was not diffiult! i did miss the thread though. thanks everyone for your kind wishes. i have really briefly glanced through the thread for what i missed, really just secretly to see if we have any bfps! sadly no, come on everyone, do it for me!
hi summer am waiting af at the moment, but will not start next cycle until late sept, because we are mega-busy a the moment, dd starting school/nursery, sorting uniform, going on hols next week (hurray!) and going to wedding in ireland at the weekend. have LONG task list let me tell you! when are you starting?
just to update everyone who asked me about review appt, before i read everyones news.
it went really well, i was so relaxed that i kept forgetting about it. if it wasnt for dh reminding me i probably would have forgotten to go! seriously. we have really moved on to the point that i am nervous about starting cycle 2 in case it rocks the calm boat that we have been living in!
anyway he told me that since i responded so well to everything that i passed all the tests and should see first cycle as a test to see my response. now i just need to get pg! so will probably go to blastocyst stage and maybe assisted hatching, because the first thing to go wrong for us was at embryo attachment stage, so perhaps blastocyst will work, let us see!

Flibberty and Caitni i read your stories about egg donation with great interest. it certainly is a very very personal step for anyone to even contemplate, whether to donate or to received donated eggs. i agree flibberty as i am sure many people do, that the donor is not the mother, just a donor of a small part of your child's dna, just someone doing a wonderful thing to help a woman realise her lifelong dream and giving up an egg that she does not need and providing a loving home for a child that would not have been. it is a minefield too however and you can see how some people dont do it very well, or dont cope with the emotional stress of it all very well. ie in how to tell the child etc. i agree wholeheartedly with the idea that a child should know the truth from day one. as much as they can understand anyway. the same goes for adoption. however we cant be too quick to judge the previous generations. their answer to everything was keep it hush hush, like pregnacy outside marriage, etc. we are much more open about everything, because we know secrets hurt everyone.
Caitni i admire what you did, i can sort of understand how you felt, the disappointment for the woman who did not conceive with your egg. that is a tough one. the whole thing is. i am going to have a think about it. i do know i admire everyone involved.
summermagic we ALL know how you feel. we all have the pg friends. it is so tough. i found, through trial and error, to face the problem head-on rather than trying to brush it under the carpet. i dont mean that you should be around at her house every day watching her grow, but face your feelings, be honest with yourself. acknowledge your jealousy, talk about it to your dh. i found i needed to tell myself that these women have every right to have all these babies, if they could look after them, love them and feed them. this helped me. i said to myself, 'well of course she is having another baby (my issue is with second babies, not first) it is the totally natural thing to do and i would do it if i could'. i had to move on or i would have gone over the edge. i also had a eye-opening realisation that for me, i was just competing with myself and losing the competition. i had to give myself a really good talking to and it helped a lot. I hope you can come to a good place. let us know if you need any more support x

All
Re egg donation: How about this scenario then (which I'm trying!) - Lister now do a shared care model with Dublin for egg donation. Sounds straightforward...well it's not like the Spanish model. Sperm is left in Dublin then the sperm gets taken to the Ukraine then meets the donor eggs. They are then frozen at Day 1 (which is when they are most stable as some aspects of the DNA are not yet formed). These Day 1 embryos come back to Dublin and then they are cultured to blastocyst stage (highly developed embryos) and the transfer happens in Dublin. Only blastocysts are transferred. I spoke at length with the medical director involved - and although it takes some time to get your head around the model - the stats speak for themselves. We are adding in a further stage however - other half will 'do the deed' in London so even before embryos become a baby they will have clocked up a lot of air miles! Susie

Hi all - any news yet from Flibberty? Good to see you again Ailz xSuzie, I am no expert, but I think that is how many of the overseas clinics operate, so as to make them as convenient as possible for the patients? A shared care arrangement sound good to me, too. If I go down the egg donor route it would be through my current clinic who have links with 3 different European clinics.

Sorry you're finding things hard Summermagic. I have a good friend who is next weekend, and I'm kind of dreading hearing from her as odds are she'll give birth just as I find out that this cycle hasn't worked, and if so, I'd find congratulating her and fussing over her baby really painful - I know exactly what you mean about a kick in the teeth . Like Lottie says though I don't feel bad about these feelings, they stem from perfectly understandable emotions. I just try to make sure they stay my issue, not anyone else's.

As for me, had EC this morning, and produced one egg. Not the two I was hoping for, but obviously better than nothing! Am now awaiting the phonecall tomorrow to hear about its progress, and am veering wildly between optimism and gloom in the meantime!

Ginger I think it's very important that you have a glass of wine immediately, say sod it to painting the lounge, and give yourself a break while you get used to the news about your AMH. Have some chocolate too while you're at it, and a long bubble bath, and then watch a soppy film in your dressing gown. This is my prescription for you, and I'm a doctor (not a medical one) so in the absence of your consultant you should listen to me!

NPA I'm rooting and tooting for your little guy! The old saw about just needing one healthy egg is true, despite being a cliche, so everything's crossed that you get good news tomorrow. [Bumpless with everything crossed emoticon]

Flibberty I think yesterday was your due date? Really looking forward to hearing the news....

Islegrin are you around? Must be coming up for time to start stimming around now?