Do probiotics help or harm

[youaremysunshine03]

I’ve been reading conflicting information and getting myself in a muddle..! In some places I have read that a probiotic (namely one including ‘lactobacillus crispatus’) is good for female reproductive health, but I have also read that it can harm the sperm.

Does anyone know anything around this? Or know a good probiotic to take when TTC (if any)?

For a bit of background we’ve been TTC for around 9 months, including a MC at the start of the year. I’m currently taking a pre-pregnancy multivitamin plus extra vitamin C.

Me and DH both take obtibac probiotics and have done for years and have successfully conceived twice on the 3rd/4th cycle.

I can't see how they would cause harm? It's just beneficial gut bacteria

0% lactobacillus IVF.

After 4 failed IVF transfers of good quality embryos, I had the EMA, Alice and ERA a month ago. The results were:

1. displaced implantation window - easy fix (hopefully) with 24 hours extra progesterone and transfer on day 7 instead of usual day 6.
2. no bad bacteria.
3. no good bacteria. 0% lactobacillus and it should be 90% to get pregnant.

Advice from Care Fertility was to take a course of Canesflor vaginal probiotics before my next transfer. The only problem is I had already been advised that I should use canesflor as I had antibiotics in December. I used 2 courses of canesflor before my biopsy thinking I’d done more than enough but still I had 0% lactobacillus!!!! My concern is maybe I’m not absorbing it? Maybe canesflor isn’t working for me?

I have ordered another 6 boxes of canesflor and plan to use 2 or maybe even 3 a day (I used one a day before and it didn’t work). I’ve also ordered some oral probiotics - Venus Vital.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Any positive outcomes? Will it just take time to build up? I’m not sure if I should put off my next transfer. The problem is they don’t recommend another biopsy and just assume canesflor will work. But what if it doesn’t? I will be wasting another good embryo.

any experiences of this much appreciated.

@TinkerTinkerbelle did you get any further with finding out why your probiotocs weren't working for you?
I have just had my emma and alice results and also have no lactobacillus and have been given same advice as you (e.g. take a course of canesflor and no need to repeat the test). But I have been using canesflor vaginal probiotics and invivo probiotics for the past 5 months. I don't know what else to do to try to 'fix' this before a final FET.

@Prayformiracles In the three weeks before my recent transfer I used LOADS of Canesflor - I mean 3 a day! I was just trying to get as much good probiotics in there as possible. I stuck with Canesflor as that was the only vaginal probiotic I could get hold of. I also took an oral one - happy mammoth Venusvital x2 a day. It might seem like I was going over board but I knew I’d used 1 a day of canseflor before my biopsy and it hadn’t worked.

Also (and I think this was the main thing) I had an extra 30 hours of progesterone before my transfer. And a few days ago I found out I’m pregnant!!!!! I’m only 5 weeks so early days and I’m so nervous something will go wrong. I think it just seems so hard to believe that it’s real after years of treatment. But it’s honestly a miracle. My 5th transfer (6th embryo as once they put 2 in). Every other time I’ve never had a hint of a line. I thought it wouldn’t happen.

So I want to shout from the rooftops that people should get the EMA, Alice and ERA if they’re having implantation failure. I was sceptical but it was the answer for me. Particularly the ERA I think. They had been putting my embryos back in too soon!!!

Good luck! If it can happen for me it can happen for you xx

@TinkerTinkerbelle thank you so much for your reply. That was my first ever mumset post. Firstly just want to say a huge congratulations! Amazing news for you!
Also wanted to ask a few more questions if that's okay.. did you ever retest emma test to see if lactobacillus had improved or did you just go for it? I'm trying to find out what else I cam do since this isn't working but I can't find information anywhere other than using probiotics.
So I recently did emma and alice and will be doing ERA and nk next before the real fet. However, I don't feel settled going ahead with the fet without knowing i have 'fixed' the lactobacillus issue first. I just want to be peaceful that everything is in the best place possible so that i dont have regrets with whatever the outcome is.
Just for info, I had my miracle Baby in 2021. I had emma and alice (not era) back then too and the consultant was surprised how good my lactobacillus was and asked me if I had been using probiotics, which I had not (didn't even know about them til about 6 months ago). When I tried again with my last frozen embryo (pgs) in 2022 I was not advised to test anything again, it failed. So last year I did another three egg collections which resulted in just one precious embryo , currently in the freezer and this is 100% the last chance. X

@Prayformiracles

Thank you ☺️

No of course I don’t mind questions - I googled all of this like mad and couldn’t find much info. I did the EMA, Alice and ERA in February and got the result that I didn’t have any ‘significant’ lactobacillus. But that I didn’t need to retest. The nurses that gave me the result didn’t seem bothered and just said the advice was a course of Canesflor. I explained I had done 2 courses of Canesflor before my biopsy because the consultant advised it after my last failed FET in October. To be honest I got the impression that the nurses knew very little about it and had no extra advice. I researched it a lot and saw a couple of people say they still had 0% on second biopsy’s even after probiotics. So I mentioned this every time I had appointments with various nurses as I was worried that I wouldn’t be absorbing the probiotics and no one would have no clue because I wasn’t supposed to be retesting. As my next FET was planned for March I was even considering putting it off - wondering if I needed longer for my good bacteria to build up. But I went ahead - I was still worried it wouldn’t work because my bacteria might not be back to normal. But it must have been ok because it did work. I think just the extra bit of time since my biopsy and lots and lots of probiotics (I think about 6 packets for shoved up there in just a few weeks😆) it must have been ok. I found it strange how little the nurses seemed to know about the subject since it’s meant to be so important.

indecently I had antibiotics for a chest infection in December which may be what stripped my good bacteria. Also the consultant told me to stop the probiotics at transfer so I took the last one the night before. I wanted to keep using them but I’m not using them now. I don’t know if that’s the right thing or not - I’m just doing what I’m told.

Hope that helps ☺️ x

@TinkerTinkerbelle same as you, my report also says I don't need to retest. But my worry is that if it hasn't improved with 5 months of canesflor then what difference will one more course of canesflor make? Perhaps I will follow in your footsteps and start using a few per day (whatever helps but there will be so much leakage, tmi lol ). I'm due to have era test in May and fet in July so I have a bit more time, I just dont think 'time' is the issue, I think it must be that my body isn't absorbing it or something. Anyway, who knows. I shall see what else my consultant has to say on Friday though I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks again and congrats again 😊 wishing you a healthy pregnancy.

@Prayformiracles yes just use lots and lots and I’m sure it will build up over time.

wishing you lots of luck ☺️ x

@TinkerTinkerbelle
@or anyone who can help.
I have started progynova for embryo transfer cycle. I asked nurse if I can use balance activ for 7 days after bleed like I usually do and she said yes but its best not to as you are using other things vaginally it best not to and when I asked why she said it can cause thrush. Is this correct or is she wrong because I thought the whole point of balance activ Is to stop things like thrush. ?!