Immune/NK cells pred thread #31

[VenusStarr]

Hi all, we've fill up the last thread, so starting a new one. Will start tagging but feel free to add anyone I miss!

Hi everyone

I have previously been on this thread when I was going through miscarriages in 2021/2022. I saw Dr. S and went on hydroxy + intralipids and progesterone and managed somehow to have a successful pregnancy which I am eternally grateful for.

We've been trying to have another one since last June - chemical, followed by a MMC at 7 weeks (6 weeks scan showed growth + heartbeat). He put me on GCSF (is that what it's called?!) which I've been taking every cycle, but I've just today had another very early loss. Ovulated late, tested day 10, negative then against all odds (and all previous experience) I tested positive 14DPO. Thought everything continuing fine, bled today (6 weeks but more like 5 with late ovulation) and now testing negative.

Anyway sorry for the essay - I'm wondering at what point I need to try something other than natural conception? Has anyone else had 5/6 miscarriages from natural conception and ended up going down the IVF route? Obviously we've had a successful pregnancy in the middle of it all, but three losses since then is making me feel something else is at play. We have an appointment with Dr.S on Monday so I'm sure I'll get some answers but obviously I am feeling deflated and wanting to work out what to do next!

Hi @lozzmax im so so sorry for your losses I’m kind of in a similar position to you I’ve had 2 losses one a blighted ovum the 2nd a 15 weeks loss ( genetically normal could fine no issue )which was in June but haven’t managed to get pregnant since. Had every test under the sun and the only thing found was the natural killer cells and just last week found a blocked left tube 🤦‍♀️. I’m coming up 42 so time isn’t on my side so I’m looking towards ivf I’ve had our consultation and have to phone them in the next day or so to start in June. What they told me is ivf isn’t designed to help with losses as much but pgt testing will rule out a lot of genetic issues. Suprise suprise it’s a fortune the other thing ivf is good for is seeing what the quality of your eggs is like but they can’t tell this until you’ve actually done it. I’m so sorry if this has been no help but we are kind of on the same pathway xxx

@VenusStarr i know you did super ovulation with the trigger shot did you have any issues with ovary pain afterwards. Honestly I just need a break did the shot on Sunday night started with my usual ovulation pain which is always pretty sore but normally lasts about 12 hours then it’s gone but argh I still have it so that’s 4 days I’ve messaged dr shehatas clinic and they just said to go to urgent care 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️. Am resting up and taking painkillers I’m so bloody fed up. How are you xxx

@Gizmo1983 thanks so much for your message, it was really helpful. I have an appointment booked with Evewell tomorrow just for an initial consultation - I just want to explore my options really. We have our appointment with Dr. S on Monday - I'm just concerned he will keep us on this test and learn approach - it seemed to take us longer to conceive again after my last miscarriage and you just feel like you're wasting time don't you. Which ivf clinic are you with? Is Dr. S supportive of IVF? He scares me sometimes!!! Do you think your blocked tube was why you haven't conceived? I'm so sorry for your loss, any loss is horrible but second trimester is extra hard. It happened to my friend last year - same as you, nothing wrong with the baby, they thought she had a bacterial placenta infection. However she very nearly lost another one at the same point recently and they checked her cervix - turns out it's incompetent so they've stitched it and put her on bed rest (for six months - quite bleak). Did they have a look at your cervix at all? They don't tend to check that from what I can gather.

@Gizmo1983 I do remember the first time my ovulation pains were horrendous - was painful to dtd, kind of defeats the object 🙄 I don't remember it lasting 4 days though. How many follicles did you have ready? Does it feel ovulation-like, or more intense?
I'm sorry the clinic aren't being helpful. X

Hi everyone,

I'm due to have my 3rd FET after my previous 2 FETs led to BFNs. I've had bloods done before the FETs and it was found I have elevated Thyroid Antibodies (275 level). My TSH is under 2 so I am euthroid.

I was placed on 10mg Prednisolone and Aspirin but as yet to see a BFP through FETs. I got a positive in a natural pregnancy but it was an early loss and was a chemical; I was not on any meds during this time.

My failed FETs could be due to abnormal embryos as I am 38 but its hard to know for sure as I've not done PGTA.

I'm looking to do a double transfer for the 3rd FET and have been advised if I miscarry I could lose both if it was a uterine issue, which I accept. I am thinking it is unlikely both would be euploid and implant anyway after 2 BFNs already.

Are there many success stories of being on Prednisolone and having Thyroid antibodies? Sorry I know this thread has been going for some time, just looking for some positive stories!

Also hi @VenusStarr 👋 Hope you're ok.

@lozzmax thank you so much I actually do have an incompetent cervix, my stitch had been out in at 12 weeks one of the theories was an infection from my op to put in the stitch could have caused the 15 week loss but there was no bacterial/infection markers so it wasn’t having the stitch. It just make the whole removal after the missed MC even worse if I’m lucky enough to fall again I’ll be having another stitch. Xxx
@VenusStarr argh im sat here in the emergency gynae ward. With having the hysteroscopy just over a week ago I called the emergency number I have for that and I will tell them about the hcg injection when I get in. A bit naughty I know and I do feel bad but I’ve been sat in an and e for 12 hours just for them to send me here so I’m actually just cutting out the middle man. Wish me luck as I have no idea what the hell is wrong. It’s like the severe ovulation pain that you describe but it just has t gone away 3 days later I’m pretty sure with rest it will just go away but with now only having one tube and needing my bits in the best shape possible to have a baby I figure better safe than sorry it’s just been one thing after the other please cross your fingers for me. I’m hoping I haven’t destroyed an ovary xxx

@VenusStarr just been discharged I must say the nhs were lovely. They’re honest in that they’re not sure what’s going on my BP is high but they said that’s because I’m probably in pain/stressed. They took bloods to check infection markers and thank goodness that’s clear so I’m back at 8.50 in the morning to have a scan. Honestly I just really need a break from all this crap but it is interesting to know that when something does go wrong at CrP they just told me to go to A and E which I’m not delighted about tbh xxx

Oh @Gizmo1983 ❤️😞 maybe it's a cyst?
I really don't think you have damaged an ovary but I understand how your mind can worry.
I hope you're not waiting too long to be seen and hope you are reassured that all is OK and they can get to the bottom of it.
Have you started pred now?
Definitely better to be checked, you're in the best place. Is your partner with you? Hooe all is well xx

Hi @Sunflower360 👋 the only thing I know for thyroid antibodies (other than pred) is LDN but I don't know much about it, dose etc. I hope you're OK x

@VenusStarr thank you so much ☺️ I was due to start pred today but I haven’t in case they needed to give me any drugs depending on the scan I’ll start it tomorrow. I’ve kept up with my hydroxy and other vitamins xxx yes thank you hubby met me up there after work I was tucked in a little corner on the ward I got admitted to so was happy. It will just be nice to know what’s going on my brain really needs a holiday xxx thank you for being there for me once again it honestly means so much 😊😊😊

Glad they're looking after you @Gizmo1983 ❤️ do you think you'll need to stay overnight? Good plan with the pred. Let me know how you get on xx

@VenusStarr just got back home I have to go back 8.50 in the morning for a scan and we will take it from there. I’m sooooo relieved no infection present am nervous for the scan tomorrow. It just feels like my right ovary is not happy they said it could be a cyst or twisting but they won’t know till they do the scan xxx

I'm glad you'll be seen soon and that you can sleep in your own bed @Gizmo1983 ❤️ hopefully it's nothing serious and glad there's no infection. I'll be thinking if you tomorrow xx

@Gizmo1983 thinking of you today, let us know how you get on x

Hi @VenusStarr i realised this morning I hadn’t asked how you were and I feel so bad I feel like I was just moaning about myself so I’m really sorry and how are you doing? Xxx
@lozzmax thwnk you so much for your kind words
just out the scan there was nothing to really see that could explain anything. The only thing is they could see 2 corpus luteums so 2 eggs have ovulated and they think that may be what’s causing the pain. They said they would consider an ectopic pregnancy but I’ve had a hysteroscopy, a hyfosy and I hadn’t ovulated till Tuesday so can’t be that. The only thing they can’t totally rule out is a twisted ovary but they said I’d be in agony and she could touch my tummy without me being in agony so they don’t think it’s that only way to be 100% sure is a laparoscopy I have open access to the ward so if pain increases or gets worse I can go straight back and they want another scan in 10 days to see if anything has changed. To add insult to injury I will ovulate from my left ovary next month which is the one with the blocked tube 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️. So my best hopes is that whatever this pain is I’ve not done any damage and we start ivf in June which to be honest will be a relief after all this and if I have 2 healthy ( granted 40 year old) ovaries to do ivf with I guess I’ll take my lot xxx I shall go home and start my prednisone 🤪🤪🤪

@Gizmo1983 how are you feeling? Hope things are better for you.

I was wondering if anyone could give me a bit of advice. We saw an IVF doctor on Friday who suggested to us that I am making a higher number of chromosonally abnormal embryos than I should be for my age (3 of my 5 losses have been pre 5 weeks). He suggested that PGTA testing frozen embroys would be a good option for me, as well as karyotyping tests. I saw Dr. S yesterday and he was vehemently against IVF for us, and said it would be throwing money away. However both times I have had a chemical under his treatment plan, he did say he assumes they were chromosonal abnormalities, the latest potentially being because of late ovulation. He said IVF wouldn't help us, and that there's no evidence to support PGTA testing helping women who have recurrent miscarriage. Does anyone have any insight or experience of this?

We've decided to do a managed cycle next month (super ovulation) just so we prevent late ovulation again and so we have a bit more control, but feel like if we have another loss, we should try IVF, though I know Dr. S won't advise it.

@VenusStarr I hope you are feeling ok mentally. I am so sorry for everything you've been through, it must be really taking its toll x

Hi

Has anyone used probiotics alongside Prednisolone in this thread? Optibac online states it can conflict with Prednisolone as that reduces your immune system and probiotics introduce bacteria ap can lead to infections. I've been on Prednisolone for 2 months now

Hi @lozzmax it messes with your head all this doesn’t it 🤪. We’ve literally signed up to ivf today to start in June. I’ve had 2 losses one a blighted ovum at 8 weeks defo chromosomal) the other 15 weeks no issues found and I’ll be 41 in July also have a blocked left tube.
we are doing pgtA testing unless we get one single blast and then we will put it in and pray.
I may be wrong but if dr S believes there are chromosomal issues then wouldn’t ivf with put testing help with that issue rather than keep having chemicals as no amount of any drug they can prescribe can fix chromosomal issues.
my last pregnancy I ovulated on day 21 and all went well until probably a placenta issue at 15 weeks, and I know a few who have ovulated late and had healthy pregnancies. I am absolutely no expert.
I need to inform Mr S clinic, he asked me to do 3 cycles before I went to ivf which I have and super ovulation just isn’t an option for us with living 6 hours away. Although I did do the equivalent this month as I had 2 follicles on my right and one on my left. So they have me the hcg injection which is the equivalent of super ovulation kind of. I’m in the 2ww for this one but with all the issues I’ve had it would be a miracle 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️.
im feeling much better thank you from
thursday every day the pains improved and im pretty much back to normal though im told i still look a bit peaky 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️. I have to go back to the nhs to have a scan in 10 days just to be safe.
@VenusStarr how are you doing
@Sunflower360 i have taken probiotics throughout ( including swallowing my vaginal probiotics for a week by mistake 🤪🤪🤪) I’ve been fine no issues

@Gizmo1983 thank you! Have started them today for (hopefully) having an FET this cycle

@Sunflower360 oooh good luck let us know how you get on as I think there seems to be a few of us going the ivf route. I’ve pretty much overdosed on probiotics for the last 2 years and never had an issue. I think you’ll be a lot safer with them than without them. Xxx

@Gizmo1983 thanks! Well I've had a few ECs already to embryo bank and have had 2 natural FETs back to back both BFNs...this is my 3rd FET now so thought I'd try probiotics this time too

Good luck to you too!

What are the probiotics that you're all taking? Should I be adding those in as well?

@lozzmax I'm taking these to help with the building good bacteria. I'm not sure if needed as I've not had my levels tested, but the Dr was happy for me to try it this FET as it is low risk

www.boots.com/Optibac-For-Women-30-capsules-10274771?cm_mmc=bmm-buk-google-ppc--LIAs---_-PMax:+UK_Smart_Shopping_LIAs_Health&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVA0nB4r9kXbWZwtjzdevCPWSS52HqUf3lYJAkBMiBGzYwfZ8pn8nNRoCnX4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

@Sunflower360 thank you so much, I'll get those ☺️